Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Bootstrap]

For those in the Never Trump camp, anything short of “vociferous” hate of Trump is interpretted as idol-worship, when, in fact, esp on this forum, DJT is rarely referenced without conditional words, clearly+vociferously stating a non-idol-worship stance. Ignored.

Why do you keep repeating vicious emotional lies about people who disagree with you? And this thread isn't even about Trump, it is about Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Why make EVERYTHING revolve around Trump?

Makes rational conversation very difficult. And it makes it very hard to discuss things as Christians. Or to actually have a discussion about a particular topic, looking at the facts. Because the emotional food fight takes over.

Please don't do this.

[temporal1]

For those in the Never Trump camp, anything short of “vociferous” hate of Trump is interpretted as idol-worship, when, in fact, esp on this forum, DJT is rarely referenced without conditional words, clearly+vociferously stating a non-idol-worship stance. Ignored.

Why do you keep repeating vicious emotional lies about people who disagree with you? And this thread isn't even about Trump, it is about Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Why make EVERYTHING revolve around Trump?

Makes rational conversation very difficult. And it makes it very hard to discuss things as Christians. Or to actually have a discussion about a particular topic, looking at the facts. Because the emotional food fight takes over.

Please don't do this.

i can’t say i disagree with you, esp not about the repetition involved. 194 pages; without searching, my perception is, your posts on this topic have repeated, esp with Robert .. i agree, the repetition, including my own, can be mind-numbing.

i’ll leave it to Grace (i hope, to chuckle) over your complaints about “bringing up Trump.” she’s noted some patterns.
when i wrote above, it wasn’t to return to Trump, it was just noting patterns of discussions/behaviors. the phenomena.
he was incidental.

it’s a matter of reading what’s there, as opposed to what one is determined to find there.
^^as Falco relayed (his quote from the other topic). “what you think i think”

i’m not a great reader, either. i enjoy different ones present who are.

[Falco Underhill]

Sometimes war crimes actually are war crimes. And sometimes fake and fraudulent referendums actually are fake, fraudulent and illegal.

Just not when Democrats do it.

Have a think about this rhetorical move. It makes it almost impossible to focus on evidence one way or another because everything is just a partisan food fight, as though facts and ethics don't matter at all. As Christians, is that really the way we want to discuss these things?

Russia really is the invader here. They really have been targeting the civilian population. There is no way on earth that they could have had a free and fair election under the circumstances. Why all the eagerness to justify war mongers who commit blatant war crimes?

And if you really don't like propaganda or deep states or warmongering or elites who take advantage of the general population, why on earth would you support Putin, defending him so vociferously? Isn't Putin's Russia a perfect example of a deep state?

What temp said!

(And thank you, temp!)

[Bootstrap]

Just not when Democrats do it.

Have a think about this rhetorical move. It makes it almost impossible to focus on evidence one way or another because everything is just a partisan food fight, as though facts and ethics don't matter at all. As Christians, is that really the way we want to discuss these things?

Russia really is the invader here. They really have been targeting the civilian population. There is no way on earth that they could have had a free and fair election under the circumstances. Why all the eagerness to justify war mongers who commit blatant war crimes?

And if you really don't like propaganda or deep states or warmongering or elites who take advantage of the general population, why on earth would you support Putin, defending him so vociferously? Isn't Putin's Russia a perfect example of a deep state?

What temp said!

(And thank you, temp!)

I didn't think she responded to any of these questions. If she did, could you please put it in your own words? If you really don't like propaganda or deep states or warmongering or elites who take advantage of the general population, why on earth would you support Putin, defending him so vociferously? Isn't Putin's Russia a perfect example of a deep state?

Or are you just playing food fight? Do you just not care about the topic that is being discussed?

[Falco Underhill]

Delete

[temporal1]

Should the US sanction itself for the involvement in Ukrainian politics over the past 10 years?
The US government is not innocent in all this.

^^Feb 24 / Page 6
Many have been and continue to pray for resolution. i hoped it would come in the first hours, days, weeks.
Continuing prayers.

[Falco Underhill]

Have a think about this rhetorical move. It makes it almost impossible to focus on evidence one way or another because everything is just a partisan food fight, as though facts and ethics don't matter at all. As Christians, is that really the way we want to discuss these things?

I think if you can't focus on evidence because of something I said, that's your own problem, and not an emergency for all Christians to worry about.

Russia really is the invader here. They really have been targeting the civilian population. There is no way on earth that they could have had a free and fair election under the circumstances.

And if you really don't like propaganda or deep states or warmongering or elites who take advantage of the general population, why on earth would you support Putin, defending him so vociferously? Isn't Putin's Russia a perfect example of a deep state?

NATO is also a real aggressor against Russia here, imo. Russia's invasion of Ukraine was the culmination of many acts of aggression by NATO going back decades. It was all explained by Putin at the beginning of this whole thing. Strange how so many Democrats forget that and only focus on Russia's current aggression.

This could have been avoided with diplomacy at the beginning, at least in my opinion, but that failed. NATO wasn't interested, imo.

Russia is certainly not completely innocent here, but painting Russia as the sole aggressor here is both false and unlikely to lead to a diplomatic resolution of conflict, at least imo.

Some of us would like to see a peaceful resolution to this BEFORE starting a nuclear war. How exactly will continuing to spread false propaganda about Russia help lead to a peaceful resolution?

[temporal1]

NATO is also a real aggressor against Russia here, imo.
Russia's invasion of Ukraine was the culmination of many acts of aggression by NATO going back decades.
It was all explained by Putin at the beginning of this whole thing.

Strange how so many Democrats forget that and only focus on Russia's current aggression.

This could have been avoided with diplomacy at the beginning, at least in my opinion, but that failed.
NATO wasn't interested, imo.

Russia is certainly not completely innocent here, but painting Russia as the sole aggressor here is
both false and unlikely to lead to a diplomatic resolution of conflict, at least imo.

Some of us would like to see a peaceful resolution to this BEFORE starting a nuclear war.
How exactly will continuing to spread false propaganda about Russia help lead to a peaceful resolution?

This has been discussed over months in this thread, and, your summary is helpful.

BIOLABS in Ukraine
Mark Rubio asked Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland about biolabs in Ukraine, she didn’t hesitate to confirm.
This may have been in March.

The video i saw described Nuland’s political history, not in positive light, and the video had good content, but, again, it contained profanity and coarseness i won’t share. i really loathe this practice. always have. it’s hard for me to imagine it “sells.”

It made me wonder why sensitive biolab research centers like this would be located next door to Russia?!
It suggests more about why the U.S. has had so much political interest in Ukraine over time.
Not just interested in sunflowers!

i agree with you. NATO, and others, do not show interest in resolution. (they did not show interest in prevention.)
suspecting underhandedness and duplicity on the part of the West is unnerving. people are suffering, we’re advised worse is coming.

.. Possibly a better analogy would be of dirty gang wars in inner cities: No clean hands. No fairy tales. ..

[Grace]

Why do you keep repeating vicious emotional lies about people who disagree with you? And this thread isn't even about Trump, it is about Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Why make EVERYTHING revolve around Trump?

Wow, from the same person who gave us an almost daily drumbeat here on MN, about how awful Trump is, for two plus years. You just can't make this stuff up.

i’ll leave it to Grace (i hope, to chuckle) over your complaints about “bringing up Trump.” she’s noted some patterns.
when i wrote above, it wasn’t to return to Trump, it was just noting patterns of discussions/behaviors. the phenomena.
he was incidental.

Yes, I did have a good chuckle. At one point I saved all the threads Boot started on Trump, and I still have them in a Word document on the computer. The list is extensive.

[Josh]

Another question is “why make everything revolve around Putin?”

A lot of Russian politicians and military officials disagree with Putin.

They think the Ukraine should have been invaded much more brutally and call for a much harsher war. Putin is moderate, compared to the rest of the electoral slate.

Even left wing candidates in Russia would want to see a restoration of the USSR and see Western interference as illegitimate. These people win substantial minorities in elections.