Household Electrical System Questions

[Robert]

If you can get from TX to OH in 8 hours you must also be driving Texas style speed limits.

I was thinking Oklahoma. So much for a weekend trip.

[R7ehr]

Neto, sounds like I need to plan a trip to your house.

What is your time table on moving in?

Wife gets her Ablation June 3rd. It will have to be a weekend trip after that, but I think we are pretty close to you (Texas talk meaning within 8 hours drive).

Sounds good. I’ll be in Ohio on July 11.

[JohnH]

If you can get from TX to OH in 8 hours you must also be driving Texas style speed limits.

I was thinking Oklahoma. So much for a weekend trip.

Would be a possibility if you got a time machine.

Neto, sounds like I need to plan a trip to your house.

What is your time table on moving in?

Wife gets her Ablation June 3rd. It will have to be a weekend trip after that, but I think we are pretty close to you (Texas talk meaning within 8 hours drive).

Sounds good. I’ll be in Ohio on July 11.

We should plan something for then. I'm trying to move out of the state, but years later I'm still here. Ohio just makes it way too easy to stay.

[R7ehr]

If you can get from TX to OH in 8 hours you must also be driving Texas style speed limits.

I was thinking Oklahoma. So much for a weekend trip.

Would be a possibility if you got a time machine.

Neto, sounds like I need to plan a trip to your house.

What is your time table on moving in?

Wife gets her Ablation June 3rd. It will have to be a weekend trip after that, but I think we are pretty close to you (Texas talk meaning within 8 hours drive).

Sounds good. I’ll be in Ohio on July 11.

We should plan something for then. I'm trying to move out of the state, but years later I'm still here. Ohio just makes it way too easy to stay.

Let’s do it. I’m going to a meeting on Friday, July 11 in West Alexandria. And may travel to Leetonia afterwards.

[Neto]

Neto, sounds like I need to plan a trip to your house.

What is your time table on moving in?

Wife gets her Ablation June 3rd. It will have to be a weekend trip after that, but I think we are pretty close to you (Texas talk meaning within 8 hours drive).

Maybe we can plan a MennoMeet at the same time and get some hands on deck.

Ground is a safety wire to take any static electricity or short back to the box and not through you. Many older homes do not have ground wires. Pulling new wire is not always easy when buried in a wall. There are a few things one can do to solve that.

Any aluminum wiring should be removed. Make sure it is not coated but aluminum all through. The challenge with aluminum wiring is when connected to copper, there is a build up of corrosion and the connection will break down over time. It takes years, but it happens. Special connecters are needed when connecting aluminum with copper. Once you use the right connector, problem solved. All main utility lines are aluminum. So no problem running power, just the corrosion issue.

If you take a picture and text it to me, or post it here of the electrical panel, I can guide you on some things from here. Just PM me if you need my number.

Yes, I am *still* just an Okie in exile (Holmes County, Ohio).

[JohnH]

Let’s do it. I’m going to a meeting on Friday, July 11 in West Alexandria. And may travel to Leetonia afterwards.

Those are almost as far apart as you can get. We enjoy going to a really great café operated by some of the "Leetonia" crowd.

[R7ehr]

Let’s do it. I’m going to a meeting on Friday, July 11 in West Alexandria. And may travel to Leetonia afterwards.

Those are almost as far apart as you can get. We enjoy going to a really great café operated by some of the "Leetonia" crowd.

Ya I checked the distance. But I’m accustomed to driving that far. I’m actually contemplating going even further East, to Greensburg, PA.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Neto, sounds like I need to plan a trip to your house.

What is your time table on moving in?

Wife gets her Ablation June 3rd. It will have to be a weekend trip after that, but I think we are pretty close to you (Texas talk meaning within 8 hours drive).

If you can get from TX to OH in 8 hours you must also be driving Texas style speed limits.

Maybe we can plan a MennoMeet at the same time and get some hands on deck.

Ground is a safety wire to take any static electricity or short back to the box and not through you. Many older homes do not have ground wires. Pulling new wire is not always easy when buried in a wall. There are a few things one can do to solve that.

Any aluminum wiring should be removed. Make sure it is not coated but aluminum all through. The challenge with aluminum wiring is when connected to copper, there is a build up of corrosion and the connection will break down over time. It takes years, but it happens. Special connecters are needed when connecting aluminum with copper. Once you use the right connector, problem solved. All main utility lines are aluminum. So no problem running power, just the corrosion issue.

If you take a picture and text it to me, or post it here of the electrical panel, I can guide you on some things from here. Just PM me if you need my number.

I have heard if one has aluminium wire with the original outlets, etc. that were designed for it, one is better off just leaving it alone and not touching it. But the problem being - can't mix and match.

Given how $$$ copper wire is now, I would not be surprised to see alum wiring eventually make a come back.

It won't . Robert discussed the corrosion problem, and that is real. However, there is another problem, aluminum is less ductile than copper. When it is bent, it produces micro fractures in the wire. Overtime and with the expansion and contraction as it heat as current passes through it cracks eventually develop. These are small and imperceptible to the naked eye, but they do develop. What happens is arching, overheating, and eventually a fire. I have seen this more than once, my chief's house back in the 90s had aluminum wire, likely from the 60s. He had heard rumors and got myself and one of my colleagues to take a look at it. He had smelt smoke in his kitchen, and when we pulled one of the wires, lo and behold, the insulation was melted. It was a 10 gauge aluminum wire, to power on appliance outlet, and the melting was right at the bend where you would expect it to be. On a physician's salary, he could afford to have it replaced and did.

In addition, you had to use one gauge larger of wire than you did for copper, for instance, for a 15 amp circuit you had to use 12 gauge, and for a 20 amp circuit you had to use 10 gauge. So some of the cost savings were negated by the fact that you were using a lot more aluminum.

So well for large, and stranded circuits like the service entrance, you'll still see aluminum and all of the connectors that are attached to it are certainly not going to corrode. But for houses in internal wiring, you could not pay me to use aluminum, or move into a house that had aluminum wiring. I have heard rumors that for insurance companies, if they find out you have aluminum wiring, a federal pacific panel, or knob and tube wiring in your house they will not write an insurance policy. Of these I would consider knob and tube wiring to be the lowest risk as long as it's been in place, since most of those connections have been soldered and will never ever come apart.

So I would consider Robert's advice to be spot on here. Get rid of that stuff before it bites you.

[Judas Maccabeus]

My water heater has the white wire just capped off (I put a wire nut on it) and then the green wire tied to ground on the water heater.

Of course, half the barn just has 2-wire plugs. Half of ‘em with the neutral on the “wrong” side.

Some electricians would legitimately save money by running a 12/2 or 10/2 instead of a 12/3 or a 10/3. Green wire was correctly tied to the heater case ground. Makes no difference, you are supposed to tape the "white" wire with either black or red electrical tape at both ends. 10/3 is FAR more expensive than 10/2.

That "neutral on the wrong side" nearly electrocuted my brother. The "individual" who did this also cheated by connecting the "green" to the "white" to get a ground. My brother plugged my father's old metal drill in, and climbed up on a radiator....

Case of the drill was hot, and he grounded to the radiator. He hit the ground, needless to say. So I would suggest correcting this problem when you find it.

[Robert]

My water heater has the white wire just capped off (I put a wire nut on it) and then the green wire tied to ground on the water heater.

Of course, half the barn just has 2-wire plugs. Half of ‘em with the neutral on the “wrong” side.

Some electricians would legitimately save money by running a 12/2 or 10/2 instead of a 12/3 or a 10/3. Green wire was correctly tied to the heater case ground. Makes no difference, you are supposed to tape the "white" wire with either black or red electrical tape at both ends. 10/3 is FAR more expensive than 10/2.

That "neutral on the wrong side" nearly electrocuted my brother. The "individual" who did this also cheated by connecting the "green" to the "white" to get a ground. My brother plugged my father's old metal drill in, and climbed up on a radiator....

Case of the drill was hot, and he grounded to the radiator. He hit the ground, needless to say. So I would suggest correcting this problem when you find it.

A neutral leg is not needed if you are running 240v only. Most electric hot water heaters are 240v. 10/2 works just fine. If an appliance takes 120v and 240v, that is when you need 10/3. Many ranges do.