Who is granting this privilege? God or the state? I understood the original post to mean the state.gcdonner wrote:While your faith is your motivating factor, it is none the less true that it is your privilege that allows you to exercise your faith in this country, so it is in a very real sense, our privilege, that allows us to live non-political lives here. Not everyone is allowed to live a non-political life in this world as it now exists.RZehr wrote: My privilege is not what allows me to live a non-political existence. It is a matter of faith. Everyone could live a non-political existence.
Even church government is "political" in essence, and remember the gift of government IS a gift of the Spirit. Paul tells us that our politics is in heaven, so we are not a-political after all.
POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics
Re: POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics
0 x
- gcdonner
- Posts: 2034
- Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:17 am
- Location: Holladay, TN
- Affiliation: Anabaptiluthercostal
Re: POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics
I like potato salad...Bootstrap wrote:One thing that distorts this whole discussion is that we are doing it in an online forum.
Suppose Mike, Appleman, Dan, and I were out in the park with the two refugee families I'm working with. My guess is that there wouldn't be a political debate. My guess is that there would be potato salad.
0 x
Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed
rightly dividing the word of truth.
rightly dividing the word of truth.
- gcdonner
- Posts: 2034
- Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:17 am
- Location: Holladay, TN
- Affiliation: Anabaptiluthercostal
Re: POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics
The original post was accurate to the point of application, but ultimately God gives us this privilege, though it is granted by the state. Romans 13 speaks to this in some degree I think.RZehr wrote:Who is granting this privilege? God or the state? I understood the original post to mean the state.gcdonner wrote:While your faith is your motivating factor, it is none the less true that it is your privilege that allows you to exercise your faith in this country, so it is in a very real sense, our privilege, that allows us to live non-political lives here. Not everyone is allowed to live a non-political life in this world as it now exists.RZehr wrote: My privilege is not what allows me to live a non-political existence. It is a matter of faith. Everyone could live a non-political existence.
Even church government is "political" in essence, and remember the gift of government IS a gift of the Spirit. Paul tells us that our politics is in heaven, so we are not a-political after all.
0 x
Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed
rightly dividing the word of truth.
rightly dividing the word of truth.
-
- Posts: 16656
- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
- Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
- Affiliation: Christian other
Re: POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics
"the fly in the ointment" at this particular moment is, it can't be ignored that the U.S. has a new POTUS, not a month in office, and is facing no small hostile resistance with intent of deposing him before he's allowed to attempt leadership.
this is fact that Christians must consider before throwing their weight around (possibly ending with all involved being used for political wrangling, more than any other end.)
there's lots of speculation about how evil he is, but, speculation is gossip's cousin.
quote, "speculation is the enemy of peace."
what if his plan bears good fruit if put in place?
(in truth, some have said "all the hubbub" is about fear his plans mght be successful!) - that his success is what really could not be acceptable to his very animated opponents (not his failure.)
i allowed obama and other former presidents their opportunity to lead, i plan to do the same for trump. if he earns disrespect, that's another matter.
this is fact that Christians must consider before throwing their weight around (possibly ending with all involved being used for political wrangling, more than any other end.)
there's lots of speculation about how evil he is, but, speculation is gossip's cousin.
quote, "speculation is the enemy of peace."
what if his plan bears good fruit if put in place?
(in truth, some have said "all the hubbub" is about fear his plans mght be successful!) - that his success is what really could not be acceptable to his very animated opponents (not his failure.)
i allowed obama and other former presidents their opportunity to lead, i plan to do the same for trump. if he earns disrespect, that's another matter.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
Re: POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics
I'll probably split part of this off and reply to it in a thread that's not about our Kingdom, but I agree that we have to be careful not to become "useful idiots" for political causes. That's equally true on all sides of the political spectrum. We can become "useful idiots" for Democrats, Republicans, Socialists, Libertarians, Trumpians, or any other political movement.temporal1 wrote:"the fly in the ointment" at this particular moment is, it can't be ignored that the U.S. has a new POTUS, not a month in office, and is facing no small hostile resistance with intent of deposing him before he's allowed to attempt leadership.
this is fact that Christians must consider before throwing their weight around (possibly ending with all involved being used for political wrangling, more than any other end.)
So if we decide that we need to speak up, we need to do that in ways that let us control our own message.
I agree, we need to pray for our leaders and hope that they succeed. That doesn't mean they are beyond criticism, but even criticism should be given with respect.temporal1 wrote:i allowed obama and other former presidents their opportunity to lead, i plan to do the same for trump. if he earns disrespect, that's another matter.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
-
- Posts: 894
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:52 pm
- Location: Central PA
- Affiliation: Conserv. Mennonite
Re: POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics
That puts it very well. (And the answer is no, in case anybody's wondering.)appleman2006 wrote:Obviously the church as it is today cannot do it all. But is it right for the church to demand the government to do the rest backed by the power of the gun.
Not that a version of this point hasn't been made elsewhere in this thread, but that is also what we're doing when we advocate for (or against) any policy on any issue, be it welfare, taxation, abortion, trade, homosexuality, immigration/refugees, war, etc.appleman2006 wrote:Is that not what we in essence are doing when we advocate for socialism?
For what it's worth, I suspect that among those of us who voted for poll options 1 and 2 there is much hair-splitting over whether we're engaging in political advocacy or simple truth-telling, and that our ideas about which is which might depend on what the issue is and who's talking about it.
Last edited by PeterG on Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
0 x
"It is a weird" —Ken
-
- Posts: 2456
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:50 pm
- Affiliation: Midwest Mennonite
Re: POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics
I agree and I also know that I am not always consistent in this.PeterG wrote:Not that a version of this point hasn't been made elsewhere in this thread, but that is also what we're doing when we advocate for (or against) any policy on any issue, be it welfare, taxation, abortion, trade, homosexuality, immigration/refugees, war, etc.appleman2006 wrote:Is that not what we in essence are doing when we advocate for socialism?
0 x
-
- Posts: 894
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:52 pm
- Location: Central PA
- Affiliation: Conserv. Mennonite
Re: POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics
Me too, guilty as charged. But at least we're trying.appleman2006 wrote:I agree and I also know that I am not always consistent in this.
0 x
"It is a weird" —Ken
-
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:26 pm
- Affiliation: Non-Denominational
Re: POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics
I agree, but how about their moral conduct?I believe it is appropriate for Christians today to follow the example of Christ and the Apostles in preaching about relevant issues, but I really don't see any NT precedent for telling secular authorities how they ought to govern.
"For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias’ sake, his brother Philip’s wife. For John said unto him, It is not lawful for thee to have her." (Matthew 14:3-4)
Would giving allowance for immorality be immoral conduct?
0 x
- Josh
- Posts: 24792
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
- Location: 1000' ASL
- Affiliation: The church of God
Re: POLL: Relating to Power: The Christian and Politics
That's got nothing to do with politics. If someone is engaging in adultery, I can flatly say he needs to repent - regardless of political affiliation.PositiveSeeker wrote:I agree, but how about their moral conduct?I believe it is appropriate for Christians today to follow the example of Christ and the Apostles in preaching about relevant issues, but I really don't see any NT precedent for telling secular authorities how they ought to govern.
"For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias’ sake, his brother Philip’s wife. For John said unto him, It is not lawful for thee to have her." (Matthew 14:3-4)
Would giving allowance for immorality be immoral conduct?
0 x