Would a moderate conservate Mennonite chuch (Like Beachy Amish) allow the prodigal son to be a member?

[Heirbyadoption]

I knew a missionary couple in a city that was asked by a Wholesale Box store employee while addressing the husband (playfully) "When are you going to make an honest woman out of her".

He said this as he knew them for years, seen them for years, but didn't think they were married as they have no ring. In the American culture, married people most often wear bands. In this case, the appearance of evil would be anti-scriptural, and the man seeing this couple for years figured they were fornicating.

This was an Anabaptist couple that was married for many years. What do we do with this?

He must not have known them all that well.

I fear people are missing the point, either intentionally or not... I am not sure.
It's not about him knowing them well or not. It's the fact that married people in the USA are recognized by the wedding band. It does not have to be an expensive one. By Jesus's own mouth he proclaimed the Father gave the prodigal son a ring, symbolizing something special.
Are Anabaptists just wiggling and squirming their way out of this verse, putting it off, or trying not to recognize what happened in order to continue the "system"? I've heard directly from the source people mis-judged by outsiders of "shacking up" basically, who were married. It gives the appearance of evil.

Do Christians give the appearance of evil to strangers or people they talk to some? My answer would be no.

Per your last sentence, did you mean to ask "SHOULD they?" Truth be told, I don't think we're missing the point at all. We're simply not buying into yours for a couple reasons. In summary, you are suggesting that Christian couples in this country SHOULD wear wedding rings in order to avoid what you consider gives the appearance of evil (not wearing wedding bands) because you believe that the general populace automatically and generally assumes that said couples are unmarried if they don't have wedding rings on.

A. Most of us disagree with your generalized assumption based on our own experiences.
B. More importantly, most of us seem to disagree with your gratuitous and inappropriate stretching of the parable in question to support your premise (equating a 1st century cultural seal of authority with a wedding band).

Again, even the Romans also accused the early Christians of having orgies because they met behind closed doors. I'm not opposed if someone's conscience leads them to wear a simple ring, honestly. But attempting to lay the guilt blanket from your personal conviction onto all conservative Anabaptists is pretty disingenuous, imho. There will always be misassumptions, the answer is not to constantly try to meet whatever standard satisfies the assumptions of an unregenerate world, but to walk in integrity. I'm not opposed to a couple wearing simple rings if they find a legitimate situation where it would bring protection or clearness of conscience, but this parable bit is just downright shaky grounds, if not altogether inappropriate, to push all Christians couples to embrace wedding rings.

[mrbilliam]

(FYI) Jews also anciently used the wedding band. There are Ante Nicean writings on the wedding band too.

Can you provide these writings?

Can we change if proven?

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:A ... 4.djvu/319

[Heirbyadoption]

(FYI) Jews also anciently used the wedding band. There are Ante Nicean writings on the wedding band too.

Can you provide these writings?

Can we change if proven?
https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:A ... 4.djvu/319

Change to following Jewish cultural practices? Now THERE's a slope to dance on.

[Ernie]

On the question of whether moderate-conservatives should allow ring wearing folks to be a member, it might be helpful to think about what membership means to them. Moderate-conservatives functionally believe that they are an Order. They have certain practices that they want everyone who is part of their Order to follow. They don't believe that everyone needs to practice their faith the way they do. They believe that there are people who are members of The Church who are not members of their church.

What most moderate-conservatives don't do is commune with people outside of their Order or with a similar Order and many do not fully embrace people who following Jesus to the best of their ability, people who are submitting themselves to other Christians of like precious faith, but are people who haven't arrived at the same conclusions at themselves. I think this is a problem, but that is another discussion.

[mrbilliam]

He must not have known them all that well.

I fear people are missing the point, either intentionally or not... I am not sure.

It's not about him knowing them well or not.

It's the fact that married people in the USA are recognized by the wedding band. It does not have to be an expensive one. By Jesus's own mouth he proclaimed the Father gave the prodigal son a ring, symbolizing something special.

Are Anabaptists just wiggling and squirming their way out of this verse, putting it off, or trying not to recognize what happened in order to continue the "system"?

I've heard directly from the source people mis-judged by outsiders of "shacking up" basically, who were married. It gives the appearance of evil.

Do Christians give the appearance of evil to strangers or people they talk to some? My answer would be no.

I don't think we're missing the point at all. We're simply not buying into yours for a couple reasons. In summary, you are suggesting that Christian couples in this country need to wear wedding rings in order to avoid what you consider gives the appearance of evil (not wearing wedding bands) because you believe that the general populace automatically and generally assumes that said couples are unmarried if they don't have wedding rings on.

A. Most of us disagree with your generalized assumption based on our own experiences.
B. More importantly, most of us seem to disagree with your gratuitous and inappropriate stretching of the parable in question to support your premise (equating a 1st century cultural seal of authority with a wedding band).

Again, even the Romans also accused the early Christians of having orgies because they met behind closed doors. There will always be misassumptions, the answer is not to constantly try to meet whatever standard satisfies the assumptions of an unregenerate world, but to walk in integrity. So again, would it be a fair assessment to say that your post is intended to show that the Anabaptists you referenced in the OP should allow or even endorse wedding bands in order to avoid what you believe gives an appearance of evil?

Then educate me.

Why did the Jesus say the Father put the ringer on the prodigal son's hand? If I'm making an "inappropriate" statement (come on with the insult), then simply explain why it was perfectly reasonable for Jesus to talk about our Heavenly Father putting a ring on a the finger of the Prodigal son. Why was Jesus imputing, and why was that special in Jesus's way of thinking?

But then your church would make that son take it off to be a member.

[Soloist]

(FYI) Jews also anciently used the wedding band. There are Ante Nicean writings on the wedding band too.

Can you provide these writings?

Can we change if proven?

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:A ... 4.djvu/319

Change if proven for what? This is not proof of a wedding ring. Nor is the passage about the prodigal son.
Both of those are referring to signet rings.
Clement is very specific as to what he permits the ring for.

Do you have any proof of a wedding ring?

[Verity]

I have not encountered this idea, either. Growing up (non-plain) we had many forms of plain people around us and I never heard anyone in the community surmise that the plain people were not married due to the lack of wedding bands. I could imagine the scenario where a new outreach was started and locals were surprised that these conservative people did not wear wedding rings. But once people learn to know them and their practice it should not be an issue. Unless, of course, they wore fancy watches or other inconsistencies that would fuel the confusion.

While "costly array" is indeed part of the Scriptures on modest attire, is not adornment equally important? As a whole, we avoid unnecessary extras. The most popular "jewelry" of my youth were simple hemp bracelets. Earrings (or nose rings for that matter) could be inexpensive, but we would not look with favor on them. Whatever extras we put on do shape our identity. My extended family members faithfully wear their wedding rings. They have commented various times that my marriage does not require a piece of metal to prove fidelity. Our life should be above reproach.

"Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing." 1 Peter 3:16-17

[mrbilliam]

I agree that there might not be anything sinful/against Bible teachings about wearing an obviously inexpensive ring for the purpose of signifying marriage in a culture that uses a ring to signify that. I’m not arguing that.

But what I completely disagree with is the importance, necessity, or benefit of doing so. This same American culture that recognizes the meaning of a wedding ring, is the very same culture that recognizes that a wedding ring does not equal fidelity. Society is changing. Wedding rings, while still important in certain circles, are losing their importance.

I’ve had conversations with people on this subject, and they seem to accept our reasons for not wearing it. We are so strange already to most of society, that the lack of that doesn’t matter.

I believe this is one reason we Anabaptists need to be in major metropolitan areas more. If you look on churchindex.org, you'll barely see any churches in major cities that are abundantly populated with plain people. They skirt major cities or are in the countryside.

We do not have the street smarts or massive diversity of living amongst millions of people, integrating, or experiencing day to day judgments by the masses of people. This isn't a perfect equation, but the equation exists is true. If you frequent the corner gas station in the country (along with 9/10ths of your church), the gas station people may know you and the culture.

But if your church lives within a 20 mile radius within let's say, Atlanta, GA, then each member will visit 10 gas stations and NOBODY there basically knows what a Mennonite is, nor the culture, nor the customs.

So yes, I can see isolated people in the countryside being safer from judgment, but we are also called to be missionaries. People unfamiliar to us seeing a simple wedding band would know this couple is married and stable, not shacked up with children.

[mrbilliam]

Can you provide these writings?

Can we change if proven?

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:A ... 4.djvu/319

Change if proven for what? This is not proof of a wedding ring. Nor is the passage about the prodigal son.
Both of those are referring to signet rings.
Clement is very specific as to what he permits the ring for.

Do you have any proof of a wedding ring?

Okay so Clement simply said that a wife can use a ring to adorn herself to make herself more pretty to a husband that is chaste towards her. There's a wife wearing a ring. Would your church allow it?
I will source out more (not much time now) on the subject. But wedding rings span far before the Great Schism of the church into antiquity. Including into Judaism.

In the mean time, can you explain why the father put a ring on the prodigal son's hand? If Jesus found it appropriate to symbolize this gift from the Father to the prodigal son, would your church have him remove such a ring?

[mike]

I care not in the slightest what the world thinks or doesn't think about my not wearing a wedding ring. If there is any area where society has nothing to teach us these days, it is the arena of marriage and marriage/wedding customs. It might even be reasonable to look at whatever the world is doing in relation to marriage, and do the precise opposite. If they think that my wife and I walking together in a public space without wearing wedding bands are unmarried, the joke's on them.