A YouTuber visits a Nationwide Fellowship church

[JayP]

There is always the general and then the exceptions/reality. At one time my EPMC congregation had multiple men with beards.
Although I would be the FIRST to clarify there had been long discussion and though about each one, and if it was 'okay'.

I don't think very many folks in Eastern could just 'decide' to now have a beard and have it accepted.
Whereas a man who'd had his beard since being sent as an Amish youth (unchurched) years ago that had never taken it off would be allowed to keep it.
Or a convert that had worn a beard for 20+ years could keep it.

The key in Eastern is, the minute you say you have a beard for some meaningful religious reason, it would be unacceptable.
Not upsetting your Amish grandparents, or your 16 year old child has never seen you without one, is acceptable.

[Josh]

"Not upsetting Amish grandparents" is a very interesting one, because this permeates much of conservative Anabaptist culture. (The idea of not doing something not to upset worldly grandparents is, frankly, a concession that would not be granted to a seeker.)

To give an extreme example, a family asked a lady at my church to sew her and her girls cape dresses, because they were going to see their grandparents that they hadn't seen in a few years. (Or maybe it was great-grandparents.) Their great-grandparents hadn't seen them in non cape dress attire yet. So their plan was to simply done cape dresses, go to their Christmas family deal, and then come home and probably not wear them again. This kind of mindset and attitude simply boggles me.

[JayP]

I thought I'd post separately about the video. I'm fairly confident this was 'real' but perplexed why a few really obvious mistakes were left it.
The idea that any NWF or EPMC church "never" has outsiders visit seems bizarre to me. Ok, not every week, but every single one of these churches I've been to and know (and there are plenty) have had outsiders either as seekers, relatives/friends, etc. stop by.

The reference to hear their choir sing stumped me. Clearly saying that doesn't 'mean' anything but it would be clear to any visitor there is NO choir, just everyone singing.

I'm not trying to draw a deeper, darker conclusion. just struck me as "hmmm moments'.

[RZehr]

I thought I'd post separately about the video. I'm fairly confident this was 'real' but perplexed why a few really obvious mistakes were left it.
The idea that any NWF or EPMC church "never" has outsiders visit seems bizarre to me. Ok, not every week, but every single one of these churches I've been to and know (and there are plenty) have had outsiders either as seekers, relatives/friends, etc. stop by.

The reference to hear their choir sing stumped me. Clearly saying that doesn't 'mean' anything but it would be clear to any visitor there is NO choir, just everyone singing.

I'm not trying to draw a deeper, darker conclusion. just struck me as "hmmm moments'.

I think those are two mistakes that reflect the lack of any NWF person in the editing room.

[Josh]

I think this YouTuber simply didn't know what terms to use; for example, he referred to the church service as a "mass". Realistically, the congregation in cons. Anabaptist churches is indeed a choir. It just so happens that all the congregants are the choir.

[Sudsy]

One thing I was looking for was how they 'spread the Gospel' as the one fellow mentioned. It seemed to me that church growth and new churches started up were primarily, if not totally, the result of having big families. There didn't seem to be much outreach outside their community to reach the lost or I missed it.

This way of life that they have is very attractive to me in many ways but the removal from the world seems more of an isolation, to me, and not how Jesus or His disciples lived. He didn't promote withdrawing from those He came to save so, imo, this is a major flaw in this form of Christianity.

I don't doubt that staying quite removed from worldly influences could be quite a wonderful life but it is not the life Jesus demonstrated. There does not appear to be much suffering for the Gospel's sake in this way of living.

How is this type of living justified by scripture ?

[GoodGirl]

We attended a very conservative Nationwide church for five (?) years. It was actually a conservative subset within Nationwide, called Mennonite Christian Brotherhood.

We are “from the world” (no religious background), and while we were slowly eased into things…
This video really made me realize what my parents must have gone through the first time they visited us, after we had been at the church for a few years.

We left the church… they would never accept us as members, although they did take in our oldest child, a son, and he married a (lovely!) girl there recently, and is currently serving the church in another country.

I have so many memories, good and bad.

To not go deep… one of my weirdest memories was having to hold up the fabric I had bought for dresses in front of a small group of people to be approved or disapproved. All the fabric was well within church standards (in fact, some ladies there already had dresses in the exact same fabric). But they wanted to make sure my husband approved of each one.

Once they suggested I have a dress made “inside out” so the teeny tiny flowers would be on the inside, not the outside, which honestly would have looked dumb~ the inside of the fabric was obviously the inside, you know?

When we finally left, I got rid of some dresses, because to use a worldly term, they were ‘triggering’ and I couldn’t wear them.

The worst they did was try to separate our older children from us, so our children could be raised in “proper” godly homes. I mean, literally they were doing everything they could to prevent me and my oldest daughter from speaking, so they could tell have more control over her life.

She has a lower IQ & I will never forget how the bishop quizzed her & denied her membership because she couldn’t define all the words he used, like ‘sanctification.’
She had taken the time to painstakingly write out her testimony & it was heartbreaking to see how cold he was to her.

To say things got crazy would be kind of an understatement.

There were (and are) some really good people there, but also some who really make me wonder.

[Ernie]

"Not upsetting Amish grandparents" is a very interesting one, because this permeates much of conservative Anabaptist culture. (The idea of not doing something not to upset worldly grandparents is, frankly, a concession that would not be granted to a seeker.)

To give an extreme example, a family asked a lady at my church to sew her and her girls cape dresses, because they were going to see their grandparents that they hadn't seen in a few years. (Or maybe it was great-grandparents.) Their great-grandparents hadn't seen them in non cape dress attire yet. So their plan was to simply done cape dresses, go to their Christmas family deal, and then come home and probably not wear them again. This kind of mindset and attitude simply boggles me.

Your point in the second sentence is a valid one. Charles Hamilton mentioned this in an interview some years ago. I have not ever heard this myself but I can imagine it being done. You can read the interview here. https://churchplantersforum.org/wp-cont ... y-Lawn.pdf

It doesn't boggle my mind because I do it all the time. (I don't buy clothes for a single use and then not wear them again.)
But the thing of dressing for the occasion is simply a "respect issue" in my mind and I would grant any seeker the same thing as long as the attire did not go against biblical principles.

[Ernie]

We attended a very conservative Nationwide church for five (?) years. It was actually a conservative subset within Nationwide, called Mennonite Christian Brotherhood.

We are “from the world” (no religious background), and while we were slowly eased into things…
This video really made me realize what my parents must have gone through the first time they visited us, after we had been at the church for a few years.

We left the church… they would never accept us as members, although they did take in our oldest child, a son, and he married a (lovely!) girl there recently, and is currently serving the church in another country.

I have so many memories, good and bad.

To not go deep… one of my weirdest memories was having to hold up the fabric I had bought for dresses in front of a small group of people to be approved or disapproved. All the fabric was well within church standards (in fact, some ladies there already had dresses in the exact same fabric). But they wanted to make sure my husband approved of each one.

Once they suggested I have a dress made “inside out” so the teeny tiny flowers would be on the inside, not the outside, which honestly would have looked dumb~ the inside of the fabric was obviously the inside, you know?

When we finally left, I got rid of some dresses, because to use a worldly term, they were ‘triggering’ and I couldn’t wear them.

The worst they did was try to separate our older children from us, so our children could be raised in “proper” godly homes. I mean, literally they were doing everything they could to prevent me and my oldest daughter from speaking, so they could tell have more control over her life.

She has a lower IQ & I will never forget how the bishop quizzed her & denied her membership because she couldn’t define all the words he used, like ‘sanctification.’
She had taken the time to painstakingly write out her testimony & it was heartbreaking to see how cold he was to her.

To say things got crazy would be kind of an understatement.

There were (and are) some really good people there, but also some who really make me wonder.

I'm so sorry.

[Josh]

Your point in the second sentence is a valid one. Charles Hamilton mentioned this in an interview some years ago. I have not ever heard this myself but I can imagine it being done. You can read the interview here. https://churchplantersforum.org/wp-cont ... y-Lawn.pdf

It doesn't boggle my mind because I do it all the time. (I don't buy clothes for a single use and then not wear them again.)
But the thing of dressing for the occasion is simply a "respect issue" in my mind and I would grant any seeker the same thing as long as the attire did not go against biblical principles.

When my grandparents were alive, it would have been offensive to them to not participate in the pledge of allegiance, reject the American flag and so forth. Those things were important to them. Yet we would expect a seeker to give that up.