Coronavirus Outbreak

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
Ken
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Ken »

Josh wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:21 am
Ken wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:19 am If doctors and hospitals rightly chose not to prescribe those drugs to sick COVID patents it is because they were following sound medicine and not falling sway to internet misinformation and pseudoscience.
Doctors who wanted to prescribe ivm and hcq had to face pharmacies ordered not to distribute it. Sorry, but your fantasy of "doctors and hospitals rightly chose not to..." is just that, a fantasy. Many doctors wanted to, but faced intense pressure to prevent patients from having access to these life-saving medicines.
Because of Republican-led efforts provide pharmacists with the legal right to refuse to prescribe medications for any reasons of conscience we had a situation where there were some pharmacists who felt that they could not in good conscience prescribe alternative therapies for COVID that they knew to be ineffective. These laws were written with birth control and abortifacients in mind. But they apply to anything including including unapproved COVID therapies.

Are you in favor of repealing such laws and requiring all pharmacists to fill all legal prescriptions?
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Ken
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Ken »

Robert wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:43 am
Ken wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:19 am Both Fauci and the CDC warned against taking those drugs for COVID because they were ineffective.
This is not what the research showed. Both had antiviral properties. I read the research, all done years before Covid. They were not cures, but therapeutics, same as the "vaccine" seems to be.
During the height of the pandemic the COVID death rate was about 1% to 1.5% and that was mostly older people above 65. For younger people it was well below 1%.

This means that any charlatan can prescribe any treatment at all such as wrapping a poultice made from the blood of vampire bats, garlic, and wolfsbane around your neck. And guess what, out of 100 people treated, on average 99% of be cured! So miracle COVID cure!

That is why for a disease with a low mortality rate like COVID, anecdotal information and informal small trials are complete garbage. Some of the early anecdotal reports about HCL and Ivermectin were from doctors who only did a few dozen trials. Which is meaningless and not statistically significant in any way. And it also doesn't account for the placebo effect which is why legitimate medical trials are always double-blind trials (the patient doesn't know if they are getting the drug or a placebo).

That is also why the Pfizer double-blind vaccine trials had 46,331 participants. They needed to do such a large-scale study to get statistically significant results about both safety and effectiveness. Similarly Moderna's stage 3 trials had over 30,000 participants.

When large-scale double-blind studies were finally conducted for HCL and Ivermectin they were both found to be completely ineffective and provide no better results than a placebo. So Fauci, the CDC, the FDA, and the drug manufacturers were actually right and the anti-vaxers promoting this stuff on the internet were wrong.
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Josh
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Josh »

Ken wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2023 11:57 am
Josh wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:21 am
Ken wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:19 am If doctors and hospitals rightly chose not to prescribe those drugs to sick COVID patents it is because they were following sound medicine and not falling sway to internet misinformation and pseudoscience.
Doctors who wanted to prescribe ivm and hcq had to face pharmacies ordered not to distribute it. Sorry, but your fantasy of "doctors and hospitals rightly chose not to..." is just that, a fantasy. Many doctors wanted to, but faced intense pressure to prevent patients from having access to these life-saving medicines.
Because of Republican-led efforts provide pharmacists with the legal right to refuse to prescribe medications for any reasons of conscience we had a situation where there were some pharmacists who felt that they could not in good conscience prescribe alternative therapies for COVID that they knew to be ineffective. These laws were written with birth control and abortifacients in mind. But they apply to anything including including unapproved COVID therapies.

Are you in favor of repealing such laws and requiring all pharmacists to fill all legal prescriptions?
That wasn’t at all what happened. Why are you confusing the two unrelated concepts?
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Josh
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Josh »

Ken wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2023 12:44 pm
Robert wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:43 am
Ken wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:19 am Both Fauci and the CDC warned against taking those drugs for COVID because they were ineffective.
This is not what the research showed. Both had antiviral properties. I read the research, all done years before Covid. They were not cures, but therapeutics, same as the "vaccine" seems to be.
During the height of the pandemic the COVID death rate was about 1% to 1.5% and that was mostly older people above 65. For younger people it was well below 1%.

This means that any charlatan can prescribe any treatment at all such as wrapping a poultice made from the blood of vampire bats, garlic, and wolfsbane around your neck. And guess what, out of 100 people treated, on average 99% of be cured! So miracle COVID cure!
In other words… vaccines for young people (like 6 month olds) might be completely ineffective?
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Signtist
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

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Well I have no idea what all the data means, but according to Stats Canada, COVID-19 deaths are at their highest point ever in this country. Weird we don't hear about this in the news.
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Josh
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

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Signtist wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:35 am Well I have no idea what all the data means, but according to Stats Canada, COVID-19 deaths are at their highest point ever in this country. Weird we don't hear about this in the news.
The economy and interest rates couldn’t handle a lockdown right now. Plus, there’s no miracle cure vaccine to sell…
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silentreader
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

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Signtist wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:35 am Well I have no idea what all the data means, but according to Stats Canada, COVID-19 deaths are at their highest point ever in this country. Weird we don't hear about this in the news.
I didn't take the time to hunt that up and double check nationally, but I think they are saying that the rate is currently the highest for this year.
I think the rate per 100,000 was about 4x as high in the 20-21 season as it is so far in the 23-24 season. But still....
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Signtist
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

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silentreader wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:25 am

I didn't take the time to hunt that up and double check nationally, but I think they are saying that the rate is currently the highest for this year.
I think the rate per 100,000 was about 4x as high in the 20-21 season as it is so far in the 23-24 season. But still....
COVID-19 deaths highest since start of the pandemic

The number of COVID-19 deaths increased from 14,466 in 2021 to 19,716 in 2022, the highest number of such deaths recorded since the beginning of the pandemic. This increase may in part be due to the exposure to new highly transmissible COVID-19 variants and the gradual return to normalcy (e.g., reduced restrictions and masking requirements).

The proportion of COVID-19 deaths among older Canadians aged 65 years and older rose to 91.4% in 2022, approaching early pandemic levels. This increase was largely felt by seniors aged 80 years and older, who experienced a 78.2% increase in COVID-19 deaths from 2021 to 2022. In contrast, deaths due to COVID-19 decreased to 8.6% for those younger than 65 years in 2022.

During the first year of the pandemic, older Canadians (65 years of age and older) accounted for 94.1% of COVID-19 deaths, while those aged 45 to 64 years accounted for 5.3%. In 2021, while the number of COVID-19 deaths among individuals aged 65 years and older (82.0%) remained high, the proportion of deaths among those aged 45 to 64 years nearly tripled to 15.5%.
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Signtist
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Signtist »

Also this. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-q ... 1b-eng.htm

In 2019 we had 3,300 death of an unspecified cause. In 2022 we have 16,000 such deaths. I wonder why this could be?
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silentreader
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by silentreader »

Signtist wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 10:00 am
silentreader wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:25 am

I didn't take the time to hunt that up and double check nationally, but I think they are saying that the rate is currently the highest for this year.
I think the rate per 100,000 was about 4x as high in the 20-21 season as it is so far in the 23-24 season. But still....
COVID-19 deaths highest since start of the pandemic

The number of COVID-19 deaths increased from 14,466 in 2021 to 19,716 in 2022, the highest number of such deaths recorded since the beginning of the pandemic. This increase may in part be due to the exposure to new highly transmissible COVID-19 variants and the gradual return to normalcy (e.g., reduced restrictions and masking requirements).

The proportion of COVID-19 deaths among older Canadians aged 65 years and older rose to 91.4% in 2022, approaching early pandemic levels. This increase was largely felt by seniors aged 80 years and older, who experienced a 78.2% increase in COVID-19 deaths from 2021 to 2022. In contrast, deaths due to COVID-19 decreased to 8.6% for those younger than 65 years in 2022.

During the first year of the pandemic, older Canadians (65 years of age and older) accounted for 94.1% of COVID-19 deaths, while those aged 45 to 64 years accounted for 5.3%. In 2021, while the number of COVID-19 deaths among individuals aged 65 years and older (82.0%) remained high, the proportion of deaths among those aged 45 to 64 years nearly tripled to 15.5%.
The site I was looking at was for WDGH, updated to Dec. 13, 2023. So not necessarily a representative sample of the big picture. It looks like the StatsCan numbers don't include 2023.

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoi ... I5MWM0OCJ9
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