Major attack on Israel by Hamas

[Ken]

These type of guys call for this sort of thing all the time.

Of note is that Syria, Iran, Lebanon have been doing nothing and not getting involved. Nor has the rest of the anti-Israel (or anti-U.S.) contingent. Nobody really wants to be part of this fight.

Incorrect. Hezbollah (Lebanon) has been attacking from the north in support of Hamas. This is from one hour ago.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/11/worl ... hamas.html

May not be Hezbollah. There are a multitude of armed factions in Lebanon that could pull this off. Personally I would suspect PFLP, or similar rejectionist factions. All they seem to be doing is lobbing occasional Katushas. If Hezbollah really WANTED to attack, you would expect far more than this.

Well no, it isn't a full blown invasion by Hezbollah. Certainly not.

But by doing these sorts of deniable strikes across the northern border they are most likely trying to freeze the Israeli army in place in the north and prevent them from deploying additional units south to Gaza. That would be the strategic reason for keeping things a little hot on the northern border.

[MaxPC]

As for the Israeli response: Collateral Damage is not the same as Collective Retribution. Hamas is engaged in the later whilst Israel in the former. Max has already pointed out that Israel "knocks" before bombing, an unreciprocated courtesy. It should be noted though that they bomb because they need to end the threat of Hamas - which exists to kills Jews and annihilate Israel. Israel, by contrast does not desire the end of Gaza or Palestinians, exemplified by their unilateral departure in 2005. It should also be noted that Palestinian children wouldn't be dying in such large numbers if Hamas didn't locate their headquarters, rocket launchers and munitions piles in hospitals, next to schools, and inside apartment complexes.

What he said....

Agreed.

[Ernie]

Is there a site that shows where Hamas rockets did damage and what sort of damage at each place?

[HondurasKeiser]

What about the 49.9% of Gazans that didn't support Hamas?
The last election was in 2006. Does it seem appropriate to punish people today for an election that happened 17 years ago?

Your original comment was in reference to the 51% of Gazans that support Hamas - saying it was barbaric to hold them accountable in some way. I disagree with that assessment. Whether or not there have been elections recently is irrelevant to the fact that still, after 17 years, 51% of Gazans support Hamas.

I feel for the people of Gaza that don't support Hamas and are nevertheless caught in the crossfire. Though again I note that unlike Hamas, Israel warns civilians before dropping their bombs that are targeted to Hamas installations.

Putting a city under siege is indeed "collective punishment", and Gaza has been under siege now for 18 years.

Gaza has not been under siege. Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza after the 2-State Peace Talks were rejected by the P.A. and they instead decided to initiate the 2nd Intifada. Gaza was turned over to the Palestinians and the Israelis living there, 9000 of them, were forcibly removed from their Gazan homes so that Palestinians could be fully in control of their own territory and there could be no pretext for violence. Hamas, not content with Gaza as their primary goal is the eradication of Israel, after coming to power and with the aid and training of Iran began a campaign of suicide bombing, rocket launches and tunneling as a means of kidnapping/hostage taking.

At each escalation, Israel put stronger measures in place to try and contain Hamas in Gaza and avoid a direct confrontation. This is what Netanyahu explicitly stated when he came to power in 2009. This then was how Iron Dome came to be - a direct response to Hamas switching from suicide bombers to missile barrages.

It should also be noted that Palestinian children wouldn't be dying in such large numbers if Hamas didn't locate their headquarters, rocket launchers and munitions piles in hospitals, next to schools, and inside apartment complexes.

Does that make it somehow okay to kill babies and children?

If Hamas cared about dead children and babies they wouldn't put their weapons store next to schools and in apartment buildings.

How do you suggest Israel deal with an organization bent on their destruction and willing to use rape, kidnapping and the decapitation of babies as part of its tactics?

[Ernie]

How many foreign nationals are in Gaza attempting to provide aid? (including UN personnel)

[Ernie]

How do you suggest Israel deal with an organization bent on their destruction and willing to use rape, kidnapping and the decapitation of babies as part of its tactics?

I don't wish death on anyone, but from a secular perspective, there are options such as the one used on Ayman al-Zawahir that result in fewer deaths of innocents.

[Ken]

As for the Israeli response: Collateral Damage is not the same as Collective Retribution. Hamas is engaged in the later whilst Israel in the former. Max has already pointed out that Israel "knocks" before bombing, an unreciprocated courtesy.

Israel has cut off all power and communications within Gaza.

Can you or Max explain what form this "knocking before bombing" takes? Smoke signals?

[HondurasKeiser]

As for the Israeli response: Collateral Damage is not the same as Collective Retribution. Hamas is engaged in the later whilst Israel in the former. Max has already pointed out that Israel "knocks" before bombing, an unreciprocated courtesy.

Israel has cut off all power and communications within Gaza.

Can you or Max explain what form this "knocking before bombing" takes? Smoke signals?

Roof-Knocking

[Josh]

Republicans have shown themselves to be rather bloodthirsty and to invade a country on false pretenses (wmd that never existed) and cause a million deaths.

I don’t think collective punishment of everyone who voted for Bush in 2000 would be the right thing to do, though.

[temporal1]

Republicans have shown themselves to be rather bloodthirsty and to invade a country on false pretenses (wmd that never existed) and cause a million deaths.

I don’t think collective punishment of everyone who voted for Bush in 2000 would be the right thing to do, though.

if i recall .. bush had bipartisan (aka career politician) support, and, the MIC generally enjoys this phenom.
as the current admin demonstrates.