Ken wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:55 pm
Fine, DOJ employees are answerable to the DOJ chain of command which goes up to the president.
OK. So did Trump have the right and authority to hold people in the DOJ accountable (including firing them), or not?
Suppose a policeman stops a mayor for speeding. Does he have the right and authority to fire that policeman? Does that mayor have the right and authority to demand that the police arrest his political opponent? I think it's the same principle. And it's all about whether we want to live in a corrupt police state or not.
So yes, the police chief reports to the mayor in many cities. But the mayor does not have the right to use the police for his personal goals or for his political goals. Would you want it to be any other way?
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Ken wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:55 pm
Fine, DOJ employees are answerable to the DOJ chain of command which goes up to the president.
OK. So did Trump have the right and authority to hold people in the DOJ accountable (including firing them), or not?
Suppose a policeman stops a mayor for speeding. Does he have the right and authority to fire that policeman? Does that mayor have the right and authority to demand that the police arrest his political opponent? I think it's the same principle. And it's all about whether we want to live in a corrupt police state or not.
So yes, the police chief reports to the mayor in many cities. But the mayor does not have the right to use the police for his personal goals or for his political goals. Would you want it to be any other way?
Comey deserved to be fired. He was a liar and pushed the fake Steele Dossier.
The analogy given doesn’t apply to the situation with Comey’s firing. Suppose the police officer who stopped the mayor, spread a blatant lie, through various news outlets and other places, that the mayor committed vile acts in a local motel room. Wouldn’t the mayor have the right to fire the officer?
Last edited by Grace on Fri Sep 29, 2023 10:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
Ken wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:55 pm
Fine, DOJ employees are answerable to the DOJ chain of command which goes up to the president.
OK. So did Trump have the right and authority to hold people in the DOJ accountable (including firing them), or not?
Yes he did. He had the right to fire FBI director James Comey and Attorney General Jeff Sessions. Which he, in fact, did.
But as we have found out, he wasn't doing that to hold them accountable to the law and Constitution. He was doing that to hide his own corruption.
Trump fired Comey because he was corrupt and a liar. Comey promoted the Steele Dossier and said it was credible. We all know that the Steele Dossier was fake and Comey needed to be held accountable for promoting that lie.
Ken wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:55 pm
Fine, DOJ employees are answerable to the DOJ chain of command which goes up to the president.
OK. So did Trump have the right and authority to hold people in the DOJ accountable (including firing them), or not?
Suppose a policeman stops a mayor for speeding. Does he have the right and authority to fire that policeman?
Yes, he does. It's up to the voters to then remove the mayor if they didn't like that.
If he doesn't have the authority... then quis custodiet ipsos custodes? I do not think unelected bureaucrats (or unelected police officers) should have absolute power and be immune from removal by the people's elected representatives.
In particular, the President has absolute authority over the executive branch. If we elected officers like the Attorney General, it would be a different situation.
OK. So did Trump have the right and authority to hold people in the DOJ accountable (including firing them), or not?
Suppose a policeman stops a mayor for speeding. Does he have the right and authority to fire that policeman?
Yes, he does. It's up to the voters to then remove the mayor if they didn't like that.
If he doesn't have the authority... then quis custodiet ipsos custodes? I do not think unelected bureaucrats (or unelected police officers) should have absolute power and be immune from removal by the people's elected representatives.
In particular, the President has absolute authority over the executive branch. If we elected officers like the Attorney General, it would be a different situation.
If you believe that, then for consistency, nobody from the DOJ needs to respond to Congress when they ask questions about Hunter Biden. Do you really believe that?
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Bootstrap wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 11:49 am
If you believe that, then for consistency, nobody from the DOJ needs to respond to Congress when they ask questions about Hunter Biden. Do you really believe that?
Special rules can be made specifically for Congress to compel the executive branch to do certain things (which in my view is lawful).
Grace wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 10:26 am
Trump fired Comey because he was corrupt and a liar. Comey promoted the Steele Dossier and said it was credible. We all know that the Steele Dossier was fake and Comey needed to be held accountable for promoting that lie.
Please show me where Comey promoted the Steele Dossier and said it was credible or verified or anything like that.
I don't think that he did. I think he was very clear that much of it was unverified.
Comey was fired when FBI was actively investigating possible ties between the Trump campaign and Russia's interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. A lot of people thought that looked like an attempt to obstruct or influence the ongoing investigation. Given the timing, I don't know another good explanation.
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Bootstrap wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 11:49 am
If you believe that, then for consistency, nobody from the DOJ needs to respond to Congress when they ask questions about Hunter Biden. Do you really believe that?
Special rules can be made specifically for Congress to compel the executive branch to do certain things (which in my view is lawful).
For Trump as well. Which is how we got the Mueller Investigation and how we got the two impeachments. So the same rules apply to both Presidents, right?
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