Christian Orders and Lessons for Anabaptists and similar groups

[Ernie]

Some of you may remember a long discussion we had on MennoDiscuss about Christian Orders and their similarities with the order of Plain Anabaptist churches.

Out of that discussion came two articles in 2017 that some of you may have read.

https://churchplantersforum.org/wp-cont ... ant-EE.pdf

https://churchplantersforum.org/wp-cont ... ury-EE.pdf

This is a thread to restart that discussion.

Please only participate in this thread after you have read the articles.
If you read these articles in the past, that counts.

[Ernie]

The articles above assume that people who are new to Plain Anabaptist faith and culture need some way to learn about the faith tradition before committing themselves to it. The default is to let them figure it out themselves.

I'm wanting to put together a short guide for how churches can make this learning curve less frustrating.

Here are the steps for one Catholic Order. What can we learn from this and what "steps" do you suggest that could make the process less frustrating for those wanting to join Plain Anabaptist churches?

[MaxPC]

A worthy project, Ernie. Not everyone is a natural student, able to see nuances and meanings. I agree that this project could be a help for those seeking at a fellowship. I look forward to reading the responses.

[Ernie]

Early Anabaptists were sometimes called "the new monastics" because of their commitment to live simple holy lives.

The article below talks about the steps one takes to join a Catholic Order. While I do not support all of Catholic doctrine, and vowing to be part of a particular Order for the rest of one's life, there is lots I think we can learn from them.

I think the reasons many people do not join Anabaptist churches or stay with Anabaptist churches has to do with confusion between what it takes to be a Christian, and what is expected of those who join an Anabaptist church (values and standards), and no way for a seeker to experience full fellowship in the body of Christ, before adopting all of the values and standards.

Catholics, Orthodox, Lutherans, and Methodists all have "Orders" and they have a process for joining that allows new people a time to experience many of the spiritual blessings, while learning more about the faith and practices and values of the Order.

Anyhow, I find these steps interesting and I think we could make up our own steps for becoming fully part of the church.

https://aleteia.org/2020/09/19/how-to-j ... ous-order/

[mike]

Some of you may remember a long discussion we had on MennoDiscuss about Christian Orders and their similarities with the order of Plain Anabaptist churches.

Out of that discussion came two articles in 2017 that some of you may have read.

https://churchplantersforum.org/wp-cont ... ant-EE.pdf

https://churchplantersforum.org/wp-cont ... ury-EE.pdf

This is a thread to restart that discussion.

Please only participate in this thread after you have read the articles.
If you read these articles in the past, that counts.

I read (or possibly re-read) the articles. There are bits of writing I have come across that if I had my way, everyone I know should read them. These are some of those. I think you do important work. Since 2017, have you seen any of these ideas take hold or make a difference in churches that you are familiar with?

[Josh]

Early Anabaptists were sometimes called "the new monastics" because of their commitment to live simple holy lives.

The article below talks about the steps one takes to join a Catholic Order. While I do not support all of Catholic doctrine, and vowing to be part of a particular Order for the rest of one's life, there is lots I think we can learn from them.

Yes. I have a dear friend who washed out of an order after 3 weeks. She found it was simply not for her.

A challenge for plain Anabaptists is that nearly everyone who would go through such a formal process would probably wash out, as well. So then what would we do with all these wash-outs?

I think the reasons many people do not join Anabaptist churches or stay with Anabaptist churches has to do with confusion between what it takes to be a Christian, and what is expected of those who join an Anabaptist church (values and standards), and no way for a seeker to experience full fellowship in the body of Christ, before adopting all of the values and standards.

I think a "two-tiered" membership would create more problems than it would solve. You say you want them to experience "full fellowship", but if there is a higher tier than most the members of a church have attained, those in the lower tier aren't actually going to experience "full fellowship". Charity and some other more liberal plain Anabaptist groups already experimented with allowing baptism and communion for people who aren't upholding all church standards, and it didn't lead to an improved outcome.

Here is a more pertinent question: let's say you have a church that has this two-tiered membership. Someone attempts to join the Order, but washes out. They will want to attend church, be baptised, go to communion and so on. But what happens when they want to get married? Perhaps they want to get married to someone from a family that is fully committed. So what happens then?

Likewise, let's say some families are seeker families who wash out of joining the "Order". Should their kids attend school or not? What happens with the lifestyle conflicts when eg their children watch TV and talk about TV at school, when the rest of the students and families have a standard against that?

[Josh]

The articles above assume that people who are new to Plain Anabaptist faith and culture need some way to learn about the faith tradition before committing themselves to it. The default is to let them figure it out themselves.

Now, despite what I said above, I fully agree with this. A seeker family or single person trying to join an Anabaptist church can often seem analogous to hazing. They just have to randomly figure out things for themselves, and then are often looked down upon for not getting it right.

A few groups do a much better job of this, which is evidenced by the diversity of last names you will find in their congregations. Apostolic Christian Church comes to mind, as do Holdeman Mennonites, but I would also put German Baptists, including the horse-and-buggy group in Covington, OH in this list (last I checked their membership was ⅓ from outside origins). Likewise, I would put the Hoover Mennonites in Delano, TN in this list. They seem to have a careful "program" to accept seeker families and integrate them into their way of life.

Other groups are especially bad at this. I will put our favourite punching bag, the Charity-type churches, in this list. It is not uncommon to go to a Charity type church that doesn't have a single seeker member in it. Every single person has an origin in an Amish or otherwise more-conservative plain church background.

I'm wanting to put together a short guide for how churches can make this learning curve less frustrating.

I think it would be useful to actually ask seeker families and single people who have been seekers what would have made this easier for them. They are the best qualified to know.

[AndersonD]

Any thoughts on why we don't encourage people interested in a plain lifestyle to create their own church instead of trying to join an Anabaptist group? Maybe FotW, is an example of this. There's one Spirit over all.

[Ken]

Any thoughts on why we don't encourage people interested in a plain lifestyle to create their own church instead of trying to join an Anabaptist group? Maybe FotW, is an example of this. There's one Spirit over all.

Wouldn't that be un-Biblical and contrary to the teachings of Jesus to tell people "you should be in a church but just not OUR church"

[AndersonD]

Any thoughts on why we don't encourage people interested in a plain lifestyle to create their own church instead of trying to join an Anabaptist group? Maybe FotW, is an example of this. There's one Spirit over all.

Wouldn't that be un-Biblical and contrary to the teachings of Jesus to tell people "you should be in a church but just not OUR church"

Hypothetical situation...an evolutionary scientist wants to join a plain Mennonite congregation, but the preacher ask him to put his evolutionary views on the shelf. It's a real hurdle for the scientist, in which case I wouldn't encourage him to join the aforementioned congregation, but if he wants to start an Anabaptist congregation that interprets the first Adam differently, go for it.