Questions for Catholics and Orthodox

[Neto]

Arch Bishop Carlo Maria Vigano

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c84j07d0j92o

What will come of this? What options remain for this cleric?

[MaxPC]

Arch Bishop Carlo Maria Vigano

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c84j07d0j92o

What will come of this? What options remain for this cleric?

In the long view of ~2000 years of RCC history, it is unlikely that any of us will live to see the ending of the story.

There have been saints that are now considered Doctors of the Church who, in their lifetime had been excommunicated for their boldness in standing firm. Subsequent popes reversed those edicts and proceeded to correct the errors of petulant personalities.

Then there are the scoundrels who will not be deemed otherwise.

Is this man a saint or scoundrel? We must await God’s patience to know. I can only say that so far as we know, he has not sexually abused anyone. He has been outspoken on issues he has deemed as problems.

[JayP]

I am confused about someone raising Vigano.
I neither defend or accuse him.

Why is an Anabaptist board raising him?

IMHO, his points had merit but I think he lost his mind.
I feel sorry for him more than anything else.

[temporal1]

I am confused about someone raising Vigano.
I neither defend or accuse him.

Why is an Anabaptist board raising him?

IMHO, his points had merit but I think he lost his mind.
I feel sorry for him more than anything else.

if you do a quick forum search, vigano, you’ll find there’s interest.
there might be more results not showing up.
search.php?keywords=vigano

[Neto]

I am confused about someone raising Vigano.
I neither defend or accuse him.

Why is an Anabaptist board raising him?

IMHO, his points had merit but I think he lost his mind.
I feel sorry for him more than anything else.

That was me, so I'll reply to your question. It was just a curiosity, and mainly for Max, who did respond. Perhaps I should have just asked him in a private message. I had never heard of this man (it just appeared in the news feed on the BBC, my primary news source), am not acquainted with the inner workings of the Catholic church at all, and simply wondered what this man's future outlook could be, as an apparently dedicated official in the Catholic church. (As in, could he remain active as a member in his local diocese? But no further response is needed, and I apologize if my question was inappropriate. It was certainly not intended as an affront.)

[JayP]

No, there was nothing wrong with your question other than I just could not imagine it being of much interest.
FWWIW, I used to appreciate Vigano’s thoughts. Clearly he held a very important position as nuncio (essentially ambassador) to the US

But while I have some sympathy for his frustrations with the Pope, who I consider a terrible church leader, Vigano has really crossed the line. I sincerely believe there is something wrong with him. I have concern and pity rather than condemnation.

But the disputes that involve Vigano are simply personal. There is no doctrinal or dogmatic changes coming from either side because of his disputes with the Popr

[Neto]

No, there was nothing wrong with your question other than I just could not imagine it being of much interest.
FWWIW, I used to appreciate Vigano’s thoughts. Clearly he held a very important position as nuncio (essentially ambassador) to the US

But while I have some sympathy for his frustrations with the Pope, who I consider a terrible church leader, Vigano has really crossed the line. I sincerely believe there is something wrong with him. I have concern and pity rather than condemnation.

But the disputes that involve Vigano are simply personal. There is no doctrinal or dogmatic changes coming from either side because of his disputes with the Popr

It was of interest because I know what excommunication means in our own circles. My grandfather was excommunicated because he opposed a liberal preacher who wanted to show secular movies in the church house. That same minister threatened to excommunicate my mom and my aunt, but found that he couldn't, because they were just visiting there, and were members elsewhere. I've also seen what it does to families here, in my wife's community, and among her people. Also, I agree with what little I saw of Vigano's complaints. (In the BBC article where I saw it, no mention was made of a personality conflict. It appeared to be about church doctrine and practice. Maybe they didn't present an accurate picture, I don't know.) But mostly I just wondered about exactly what I asked: What are his options, as a Catholic. I don't know Catholicism, and was curious. Excommunication may seem like a laughing matter to some, but not to me.

[Josh]

Folks and mods - can we move general discussion to another thread?

[temporal1]

No, there was nothing wrong with your question other than I just could not imagine it being of much interest.
FWWIW, I used to appreciate Vigano’s thoughts. Clearly he held a very important position as nuncio (essentially ambassador) to the US

But while I have some sympathy for his frustrations with the Pope, who I consider a terrible church leader, Vigano has really crossed the line. I sincerely believe there is something wrong with him. I have concern and pity rather than condemnation.

But the disputes that involve Vigano are simply personal. There is no doctrinal or dogmatic changes coming from either side because of his disputes with the Popr

Question for Catholic JayP:
i appreciate what you’re saying about Vigano, from my limited view, i haven’t detected this, you could be correct.
i’m slightly more familiar with Cardinal Sarah and Cardinal Burke, i’ve heard both names as possbilities for being pope.
C.Burke’s health may not be good. i’m unsure about what has happened to C.Sarah.

From the little i’ve read, both have been met with difficulties with Pope Francis. Pope Francis has shown impatience with, disregard for conservatives in general, not just certain individuals.

Is this not comparable with Vigano?

[temporal1]

No, there was nothing wrong with your question other than I just could not imagine it being of much interest.
FWWIW, I used to appreciate Vigano’s thoughts. Clearly he held a very important position as nuncio (essentially ambassador) to the US

But while I have some sympathy for his frustrations with the Pope, who I consider a terrible church leader, Vigano has really crossed the line. I sincerely believe there is something wrong with him. I have concern and pity rather than condemnation.

But the disputes that involve Vigano are simply personal. There is no doctrinal or dogmatic changes coming from either side because of his disputes with the Popr

It was of interest because I know what excommunication means in our own circles. My grandfather was excommunicated because he opposed a liberal preacher who wanted to show secular movies in the church house. That same minister threatened to excommunicate my mom and my aunt, but found that he couldn't, because they were just visiting there, and were members elsewhere. I've also seen what it does to families here, in my wife's community, and among her people. Also, I agree with what little I saw of Vigano's complaints. (In the BBC article where I saw it, no mention was made of a personality conflict. It appeared to be about church doctrine and practice. Maybe they didn't present an accurate picture, I don't know.) But mostly I just wondered about exactly what I asked: What are his options, as a Catholic. I don't know Catholicism, and was curious. Excommunication may seem like a laughing matter to some, but not to me.

more on excommunication:
P.4 / viewtopic.php?t=3967&start=30