Amish farm under threat from U.S. federal govt for refusal to abandon traditional farming practices

[Ken]

Sometimes there’s government overreach. And regulations can definitely hamper small businesses. And some people may prefer more natural products to be used in their food production. But I’m fairly convinced that none of those things are the primary issue here.

I think that Amos Miller would very likely be able to do all the things he wants to do if he jumped through the proper hoops. But he’s got so many people whispering in his ear that he won’t even try. There are a lot of people out there who are using him to further their own ideologies. It’s a bit disgusting cause I’ve seen people lose their homes because they went by the sovereign citizen playbook.

Sometimes it is more fun or more seductive to be a martyr on FOX news than it is to just buckle down and follow the rules and law like everyone else.

There are tens of thousands of small producers of organic and natural meats, produce, and dairy products around the country who sell in farmer's markets, roadside stands, and to restaurants and other retail channels. They manage to do it even though some regulations are a hassle to deal with. I buy meats and sausages from a local farm that has a booth at our local farmer's market. I like to think they are following all the necessary food safety requirements and as far as I know they are. It isn't really that complicated.

[Josh]

There are tens of thousands of small producers of organic and natural meats, produce, and dairy products around the country who sell in farmer's markets, roadside stands, and to restaurants and other retail channels. They manage to do it even though some regulations are a hassle to deal with. I buy meats and sausages from a local farm that has a booth at our local farmer's market. It isn't really that complicated.

No, a lot of them are ignoring these regulations too. The government just hasn't come to crack down on them (yet).

I like to think they are following all the necessary food safety requirements and as far as I know they are.

In other words, you have no idea. They might just be reselling mass-produced factory farmed meat, though.

[Ken]

There are tens of thousands of small producers of organic and natural meats, produce, and dairy products around the country who sell in farmer's markets, roadside stands, and to restaurants and other retail channels. They manage to do it even though some regulations are a hassle to deal with. I buy meats and sausages from a local farm that has a booth at our local farmer's market. It isn't really that complicated.

No, a lot of them are ignoring these regulations too. The government just hasn't come to crack down on them (yet).

I like to think they are following all the necessary food safety requirements and as far as I know they are.

In other words, you have no idea. They might just be reselling mass-produced factory farmed meat, though.

Our society does operate on a certain amount of trust. It has always been thus. Most Americans and American businesses are trustworthy and seek to do the right thing. So yes, I do trust my local farm guys to be selling me meat that that they produced and not stuff they bought at Costco and relabeled.

We shouldn't need government enforcement to make sure people follow the rules and operate their businesses in a safe and legal manner. Unfortunately there are those outliers like Amos Miller who choose to flaunt the law and make enforcement necessary.

[Josh]

We shouldn't need government enforcement to make sure people follow the rules and operate their businesses in a safe and legal manner. Unfortunately there are those outliers like Amos Miller who choose to flaunt the law and make enforcement necessary.

Amos Miller's operation is club-based - one has to sign up and know exactly what they are getting into. And no, enforcement is not necessary. If I want to buy stuff from his farm, I should be allowed to. I don't need the same government that thinks selling Coke and Doritos is OK telling me what food to eat or not eat.

[Ernie]

I don't need the same government that thinks selling Coke and Doritos is OK telling me what food to eat or not eat.

Whether or not you need such a government is beside the point. The New Testament instructs us to be subject, unless the laws go against the higher laws of God. There is a legal, inexpensive way to get organically grown meat without defying government regulations.

[Josh]

Whether or not you need such a government is beside the point. The New Testament instructs us to be subject, unless the laws go against the higher laws of God. There is a legal, inexpensive way to get organically grown meat without defying government regulations.

I'm not sure Romans 13 is a suicide pact; I am a bit dismayed at people who think absolute obedience to unjust laws is somehow virtuous.

For starters, the laws in question are not "lawful" and violate things like the Constitution. If you're saying we should always obey whatever thugs with guns say, sure, that would be a somewhat different position to take. The things Miller is doing aren't even breaking any laws - they are regulations passed by fiat by federal agencies.

[Ken]

Whether or not you need such a government is beside the point. The New Testament instructs us to be subject, unless the laws go against the higher laws of God. There is a legal, inexpensive way to get organically grown meat without defying government regulations.

I'm not sure Romans 13 is a suicide pact; I am a bit dismayed at people who think absolute obedience to unjust laws is somehow virtuous.

For starters, the laws in question are not "lawful" and violate things like the Constitution. If you're saying we should always obey whatever thugs with guns say, sure, that would be a somewhat different position to take. The things Miller is doing aren't even breaking any laws - they are regulations passed by fiat by federal agencies.

Nonsense. Laws take multiple forms in this country. The highest laws of the land are the Constitution and things like international treaties.

The Constitution authorizes Congress to pass statutes such as the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act passed in 1938 which established the FDA and gave it the authority to regulate the safety of foods and drugs through regulations.

Federal agencies like the FDA pass regulations following the process laid out by Congress through laws like the Administrative Procedures Act which requires that agencies do economic and environmental analyses, public proposed rules, receive public comment, and so forth before issuing any regulations.

This has all been found constitutional by courts countless times over the centuries. And it is only ridiculous fringe groups like the sovereign citizen movement who think that state and federal agencies have no authority to issue regulations.

Most legitimate businesses actually welcome fair and reasonable regulations because it ensures a level playing field for all and avoids a race to the bottom where only the most egregious and unethical businesses survive.

[Josh]

The Constitution authorizes Congress to pass statutes such as the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act passed in 1938 which established the FDA and gave it the authority to regulate the safety of foods and drugs through regulations.

The Constitution authorises Congress to regulate people slaughtering and buying food within a state?

Exactly how? Is this "interstate commerce"?

Most legitimate businesses actually welcome fair and reasonable regulations because it ensures a level playing field for all and avoids a race to the bottom where only the most egregious and unethical businesses survive.

Most businesses (especially big business) try to avoid as many regulations as they can, and only support them when they can use them as a cudgel to drive their competitors out of business. Come on.

As I keep pointing out, lots of toxic, unhealthy food continues to be sold by giant megacorps, like Doritos and Big Macs.

[JohnHurt]

So you lie? Great idea for a christian.

J.M.

Exodus 1: (15) And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah:

(16) And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.

(17) But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive.

(18) And the king of Egypt called for the midwives, and said unto them, Why have ye done this thing, and have saved the men children alive?

(19) And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them.

(20) Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.

(21) And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that he made them houses.

I fear God. God blesses me because I fear Him and keep His Commandments.

Who do you fear?

Where do you see a biblical command to consume only raw milk? That is a preference on your part, not a biblical mandate.

J.M.

There is no command, but an inference.

Deuteronomy 22: (9) Thou shalt not sow thy vineyard with divers seeds: lest the fruit of thy seed which thou hast sown, and the fruit of thy vineyard, be defiled.

(10) Thou shalt not plow with an ox and an ass together.

(11) Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together.

This passage establishes the case law that we are not to tamper with what God has created, like GMO crops or hybrid animals. When you pasteurize milk, and homogenize it, you are creating something that is part milk and part something else. The passage does not specifically condemn drinking store-bought milk, but if you are open to finding the rules of health in the Bible, it will become clear. And it is not a sin to drink old store-bought milk, it is just that fresh raw milk taken directly that day from the animal is so much better for you, as all of the natural enzymes have not be destroyed by pasteurization.

Of course, if you open to injecting vaccines made with infected monkey pus with mercury as a preservative, or using the COVID vaccine that incorporates the cell line of an aborted child and the DNA from a "glow in the dark" squid as a genetic marker - if you think man can really create messenger RNA as a "cure" for COVID that won't cause a blood clot - if you really believe all of this, then I won't argue with you. We live on different planets.

"To each his own".

[Josh]

(21) And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that he made them houses.

It's an interesting quotation, JohnHurt, as there is a nationwide movement right now to outlaw midwifery and replace them with medical "professionals".