Elon musk and his sons

[Szdfan]

I see you arguing a double standard:

• If anyone of us normal slobs had fourteen children with multiple women, we'd be loudly and harshly condemned.
• Elon Musk, however, is rich and conservative. Therefore his behavior is excusable. In fact, any criticism towards Musk that would be levied against any other person who acted the same way is "Musk Derangement Syndrome" or somebody else's fault like a degenerate society that allows mixed race kids.

Has anyone excused Musk's personal immorality?

Remember, speaking the truth is important. I don't think it's good to accuse other people here of making an argument they didn't actually make. I haven't seen temporal1 (or anyone else, that I can recall) who has argued that Musk's personal "family" behavior is excusable.

That’s exactly my point—no one has outright excused Musk’s behavior, but the way it’s being discussed is completely different from how similar behavior would normally be treated here. When someone else engages in serial promiscuity or has multiple children out of wedlock, they’re condemned. When Musk does it, the response is much more muted, or deflected into discussions about how he at least provides for them. That’s the double standard I’m pointing out.

[JohnH]

That’s exactly my point—no one has outright excused Musk’s behavior, but the way it’s being discussed is completely different from how similar behavior would normally be treated here. When someone else engages in serial promiscuity or has multiple children out of wedlock, they’re condemned. When Musk does it, the response is much more muted, or deflected into discussions about how he at least provides for them. That’s the double standard I’m pointing out.

I have said repeatedly how much I do not agree with his personal morality, and how much I don't like the constellation of things around him (like the Babylon Bee) that excuse it or look the other way. Others on MN have as well.

That has no bearing, however, on the fact I think he's very good at figuring out how to get rockets into space.

[Szdfan]

LOL....pot calling the kettle black...just my observation.

From the board guidlines:
-Use I statements. Speak for yourself and don't decide what someone else is meaning to say or exaggerate what someone else posts.
-Do not state that someone else is wrong. State your own thoughts and opinions.

As for ambiguity.... This is what I see...If someone is not trashing Trump or Musk, they are somehow being sympathetic to their immoral behavior or even some of their off the wall policies.

I appreciate the reminder about board guidelines, but it’s interesting how they only seem to come up when challenging certain viewpoints. I was responding to a direct personal attack against me. Why aren’t you reminding Temp of the board guidelines?

i wish for you to have another hobby, rather than frequenting a forum to take moral potshots at those you perceive to be unworthy. it reflects a sad nature. i’m not sure why it’s allowed. your special privilege, it seems.

But you’re also reframing my argument into something I didn’t say. I never claimed that not criticizing Musk/Trump means endorsing them. I pointed out that similar behaviors get different responses depending on who the person is. If you think I’m wrong, explain why Musk isn’t condemned the same way other men with multiple children from multiple women are.

[Szdfan]

That’s exactly my point—no one has outright excused Musk’s behavior, but the way it’s being discussed is completely different from how similar behavior would normally be treated here. When someone else engages in serial promiscuity or has multiple children out of wedlock, they’re condemned. When Musk does it, the response is much more muted, or deflected into discussions about how he at least provides for them. That’s the double standard I’m pointing out.

I have said repeatedly how much I do not agree with his personal morality, and how much I don't like the constellation of things around him (like the Babylon Bee) that excuse it or look the other way. Others on MN have as well.

That has no bearing, however, on the fact I think he's very good at figuring out how to get rockets into space.

I appreciate that you personally disapprove of Musk’s morality, but that wasn’t my point. My point is that when it comes to Musk, the tone and framing of the discussion here is very different than when other people engage in the same behavior. Musk’s actions don’t spark the same moral outrage, and when they’re discussed, the conversation quickly shifts to deflections about his wealth, intelligence, or achievements. Do you disagree that this pattern exists?

[JohnH]

I appreciate that you personally disapprove of Musk’s morality, but that wasn’t my point. My point is that when it comes to Musk, the tone and framing of the discussion here is very different than when other people engage in the same behavior. Musk’s actions don’t spark the same moral outrage, and when they’re discussed, the conversation quickly shifts to deflections about his wealth, intelligence, or achievements. Do you disagree that this pattern exists?

Yes. Here is my view: I think you are accustomed to a way of speaking about figures, whether they are Russia or Musk, where ones who are "bad people" must always be denounced anytime the topic of them comes up, sort of like a Two Minutes' Hate. Failure to do this is somehow perceived as actually condoning or liking what that person does.

I can observe that Russia has certain strengths, especially military ones, and that Elon Musk is very knowledgeable of electronic payments systems and of getting rockets into space. When I say those things, I don't think I need to also say "But the United Russia party is really bad. And Musk is a morally dubious person who does very immoral things in his personal life."

For whatever reason, it seems you'd be more comfortable if I did that, which I and others are not willing to do. So it becomes very difficult for us to discuss even the most basic things.

If you want to see my moral outrage, I would remind you of my thread on IVF, because discarding embryos in the trash is probably the thing I feel the most moral outrage about in the world. And Trump has fully endorsed IVF, and Musk openly brags about how he engages in it. I am not sure how much clearer I could be in my "moral outrage" on what I consider to be one of the most fundamental moral topics there is.

So here we are.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Do you think race should be a factor used in deciding who gets what property? I don't think it should be.

Unlike the United States, most of the population of South Africa is still indigenous, only 8% are white. I doubt that we will see the kinds of things we saw with Rhodesia, that would be terrible. And so far, nothing has happened. I think they are trying to figure it out.

But it IS the ANCs platform and promise to its voters.

[Robert]

I see you arguing a double standard:

• If anyone of us normal slobs had fourteen children with multiple women, we'd be loudly and harshly condemned.
• Elon Musk, however, is rich and conservative. Therefore his behavior is excusable. In fact, any criticism towards Musk that would be levied against any other person who acted the same way is "Musk Derangement Syndrome" or somebody else's fault like a degenerate society that allows mixed race kids.

Speak what you see for yourself.

I do not see that on this board. I have heard multiple people speak against Elon Musk's lifestyle and parenting.

Elon Musk is not a conservative. He is a left leaning moderate. There is a lot of things I disagree with him on. I do agree on rockets and DOGE. EVs are meh to me. Once battery technology matures, I will be very excited about it. I think he is in way too early. I would like to invest in the Tesla Robotics division, but I am too poor to invest.

[Robert]

where ones who are "bad people" must always be denounced anytime the topic of them comes up

Problem solved. I added it to my signature. Now every time I post, Musk is condemned.

[Szdfan]

I appreciate that you personally disapprove of Musk’s morality, but that wasn’t my point. My point is that when it comes to Musk, the tone and framing of the discussion here is very different than when other people engage in the same behavior. Musk’s actions don’t spark the same moral outrage, and when they’re discussed, the conversation quickly shifts to deflections about his wealth, intelligence, or achievements. Do you disagree that this pattern exists?

Yes. Here is my view: I think you are accustomed to a way of speaking about figures, whether they are Russia or Musk, where ones who are "bad people" must always be denounced anytime the topic of them comes up, sort of like a Two Minutes' Hate. Failure to do this is somehow perceived as actually condoning or liking what that person does.

I can observe that Russia has certain strengths, especially military ones, and that Elon Musk is very knowledgeable of electronic payments systems and of getting rockets into space. When I say those things, I don't think I need to also say "But the United Russia party is really bad. And Musk is a morally dubious person who does very immoral things in his personal life."

For whatever reason, it seems you'd be more comfortable if I did that, which I and others are not willing to do. So it becomes very difficult for us to discuss even the most basic things.

If you want to see my moral outrage, I would remind you of my thread on IVF, because discarding embryos in the trash is probably the thing I feel the most moral outrage about in the world. And Trump has fully endorsed IVF, and Musk openly brags about how he engages in it. I am not sure how much clearer I could be in my "moral outrage" on what I consider to be one of the most fundamental moral topics there is.

So here we are.

I never said Musk must be ritually denounced in every discussion. My point was that when similar immoral behavior comes up with others, it’s often met with much stronger condemnation. But when it’s Musk, the conversation shifts—to his intelligence or his business success. That’s a pattern of selective outrage, not a call for ideological purity. Do you disagree that this shift in framing happens?

I’m aware of your opposition to IVF, but I’m also am observing that you’re also bringing up Musk’s ability to shoot rockets into space in a conversation that at one point was about Musk’s views on genetics and his fertility.

[Szdfan]

I see you arguing a double standard:

• If anyone of us normal slobs had fourteen children with multiple women, we'd be loudly and harshly condemned.
• Elon Musk, however, is rich and conservative. Therefore his behavior is excusable. In fact, any criticism towards Musk that would be levied against any other person who acted the same way is "Musk Derangement Syndrome" or somebody else's fault like a degenerate society that allows mixed race kids.

Speak what you see for yourself.

That’s exactly what I’m doing. I’m pointing out a pattern I’ve observed in how Musk’s behavior is discussed compared to others.

I do not see that on this board. I have heard multiple people speak against Elon Musk's lifestyle and parenting.

Temp did suggest that those of us who are criticizing Musk are suffering from “Musk Derangement Syndrome.” That’s not exactly taking criticisms seriously,

Elon Musk is not a conservative. He is a left leaning moderate. There is a lot of things I disagree with him on. I do agree on rockets and DOGE. EVs are meh to me. Once battery technology matures, I will be very excited about it. I think he is in way too early. I would like to invest in the Tesla Robotics division, but I am too poor to invest.

Ok, but I think you’re doing right now what I’m describing. That’s the pattern I’m pointing out—whenever Musk’s behavior is brought up, the conversation quickly shifts to his intelligence, business success, or technology. Why do you think that happens?