Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

[Josh]

I did a count of the 200 or so people who regularly attend church.

About 50 people have a parent, grandparent, or great-grandparent who joined “from the world”. If I include adoptions, it’s about 75.

That seems like a reasonable amount.

The reason I thought of it that way is that many children of seekers end up marrying an ethnic Anabaptist. The same goes for grandchildren. Same goes for adopted people. (One adopted person just adopted his own first child.)

Two congregations in our church were majority seekers at one point in time. One of them had a lot of conflicts and eventually many of the seekers migrated to more mature congregations. The other one didn’t have that happen, but that congregation now has a rather rigid culture and seekers are encouraged to consider a different congregation. It turns out many seekers and their children are suspicious of other seekers!

[steve-in-kville]

I'll be honest, I haven't been super active online as of late and I did not read through this thread. But one fact comes to mind regarding this topic: Conservative Anabaptists are not interested in "reaching out". They want to preserve what they have been protecting for decades. Beyond summer Bible Schools and such, I do not see much community outreach, at least in my area. We may have a "street preacher" or two, but that is beyond the norm.

Change my mind.

Attend the next Church Planters Forum & Retreat. You might be surprised at how many individuals and families from within CA churches are interested in reaching out.

I'm glad to hear that.

Our area is so thick with Anabaptist groups that "recruitment" must not be a thing. Some groups treat transplants like a novelty, others treat them like a threat. It is really weird.

[Josh]

Interestingly, my own church had a very tiny presence in Lancaster (a missionary family, one ex Amish young couple that joined, and one elderly couple, the wife of which is from my congregation). We don’t have any presence in Holmes County.

You will actually meet the most seekers in Kansas in the Holdeman strongholds there… visitors end up coming around by curiosity or just because they’re seeking a church and Holdeman churches are all over the place. (One county is 20% Holdeman members by population.) So it is possible to be a “stronghold” and still be welcoming.

In Detroit (TX) there are a few visitors who regularly attend. One likes to come in his cowboy boots and cowboy hat, from the rumours I hear. For some reason the church there is quite “integrated” into the community. The same is true in Uvalde, although apparently crime is getting so bad there that most families are planning to move away.

[Sudsy]

I'm convinced that what Jesus said about the way being difficult is true and that the multitude you reference in Revelation is not many, but few, compared to the billions of people who have ever lived and will live in the future.

I agree but as I posted this text in Revelation refers to this 'few' is a 'multitude that no man can count'. Whatever that number will be, I have not been convinced yet that the vast majority of those who have not believed in Jesus will end up in never ending torment in hell. I do believe there will be some temporary penalty for those who have rejected the gift of salvation.

The emphasis I have used most in evangelism is the promise of eternal life in a wonderful place called heaven for those who will believe that Jesus paid the penalty for all their sins and He offers them the free gift of salvation. It is a gift that cannot be earned by our own religious ways. This is how I read the evangelism of those who Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to live within them and guide them in the way that they should go.


If, in our evangelism and discipleship, we are not telling people that following Jesus is difficult and that it requires taking up the cross daily and that it requires losing their life in order to find it, we are pointing them toward the broad way and we know what Jesus said this leads to.

The narrow way, to me, is a way that believes that Jesus free gift of salvation when received in one's heart will result in a person being born again and receiving the Holy Spirit to empower and guide them to live a Christian life. The Gospel is quite simple but very dynamic if believed in one's heart. It is sometimes called 'getting converted', my father's way of putting it. Following Jesus is difficult in the sense that we are daily denying our old fleshly nature and we are to not give it any life but through the power of the Holy Spirit we are able to overcome the flesh. I believe for those who do crucify the flesh daily through the Holy Spirit's enabling power will be able to live the life Jesus talked about as one of unspeakable joy and peace and all the other wonderful fruit of the Holy Spirit. It can be our best life now.

The broad way that leads to destruction, to me, is any other way that man comes up with based on his own doing and righteousness.

It isn't about taking on a hard religious life of self sacrificing but rather receiving the gift of eternal life by believing in the Gospel that saves us and this provides us with the empowering Holy Spirit to live what Jesus called an 'abundant life'. We do enter into a life of warfare with the evil around us but as we put on the full armour of God we can resist and be overcomers. God gives us everything we need to live a joy filled life of victory over sin and the devil.

So, I guess we have two different ways of spreading the Good News that leads to life everlasting. I welcome any further discussion on this as I think it is an important topic to share our understandings.

[Ernie]

I'll be honest, I haven't been super active online as of late and I did not read through this thread. But one fact comes to mind regarding this topic: Conservative Anabaptists are not interested in "reaching out". They want to preserve what they have been protecting for decades. Beyond summer Bible Schools and such, I do not see much community outreach, at least in my area. We may have a "street preacher" or two, but that is beyond the norm.

Change my mind.

Attend the next Church Planters Forum & Retreat. You might be surprised at how many individuals and families from within CA churches are interested in reaching out.

I'm glad to hear that.

Our area is so thick with Anabaptist groups that "recruitment" must not be a thing. Some groups treat transplants like a novelty, others treat them like a threat. It is really weird.

Gary and I started the Church Planters Forum ten years ago and are very encouraged by how many people are planning to plant churches in cities.
I look forward to the day when church planter's forums among Anabaptists won't be needed. I hope that it will become such a part of every church's mission and worldview that older people in the church can teach younger people how to do it.

It is one thing to recognize how deficient a Christian subculture is, and make all sorts of loud complaints about it.
It is quite another thing to invest one's time and energy into initiatives that will make a difference and begin changing the subculture.

I have yet to meet an effective church planter, (or any other effective kingdom worker for that matter) who was scolded into taking up such a calling. Typically, people are motivated by others who are passionate and effective in their calling.

[Josh]

Attend the next Church Planters Forum & Retreat. You might be surprised at how many individuals and families from within CA churches are interested in reaching out.

I'm glad to hear that.

Our area is so thick with Anabaptist groups that "recruitment" must not be a thing. Some groups treat transplants like a novelty, others treat them like a threat. It is really weird.

Gary and I started the Church Planters Forum ten years ago and are very encouraged by how many people are planning to plant churches in cities.
I look forward to the day when church planter's forums among Anabaptists won't be needed. I hope that it will become such a part of every church's mission and worldview that older people in the church can teach younger people how to do it.

It is one thing to recognize how deficient a Christian subculture is, and make all sorts of loud complaints about it.
It is quite another thing to invest one's time and energy into initiatives that will make a difference and begin changing the subculture.

How much interest is there from groups other than fundamental/progressive-conservatives and moderate-conservatives?

The reason I ask is because church planting from these groups is, well, guaranteed to be a dud, since their model relies on a stream of incoming intermediates, ultras, and Old Orders.

[Ernie]

There is interest in church planting all across the spectrum.
... from Ultra-conservative to Progressive Conservative

Old Orders and Ultra conservatives do not have a vision for planting churches in cities. But Intermediate-Conservative thru Progressive-Conservative do. We had a team from Bethel Fellowship attend the Forum and Retreat last month who are looking at planting a church in Minneapolis. Some years ago, we had a team from Pilgrim Conference attend for a few years who were planting a church in NYC. We've had a few Amish attend over the years.

[Josh]

There is interest in church planting all across the spectrum.
... from Ultra-conservative to Progressive Conservative

Old Orders and Ultra conservatives do not have a vision for planting churches in cities. But Intermediate-Conservative thru Progressive-Conservative do. We had a team from Bethel Fellowship attend the Forum and Retreat last month who are looking at planting a church in Minneapolis. Some years ago, we had a team from Pilgrim Conference attend for a few years who were planting a church in NYC. We've had a few Amish attend over the years.

Have you had much contact with ACs? They have the most Anabaptist presence in cities. (I used to make a habit of going to their Wednesday night services when travelling for business in cities like Minneapolis.)

[Ernie]

There is interest in church planting all across the spectrum.
... from Ultra-conservative to Progressive Conservative

Old Orders and Ultra conservatives do not have a vision for planting churches in cities. But Intermediate-Conservative thru Progressive-Conservative do. We had a team from Bethel Fellowship attend the Forum and Retreat last month who are looking at planting a church in Minneapolis. Some years ago, we had a team from Pilgrim Conference attend for a few years who were planting a church in NYC. We've had a few Amish attend over the years.

Have you had much contact with ACs? They have the most Anabaptist presence in cities. (I used to make a habit of going to their Wednesday night services when travelling for business in cities like Minneapolis.)

A bit of contact.

[seinetsodumm]

The Great Commission of Jesus is for ALL people, all Christians everywhere. Jesus declared all authority in Heaven and on Earth was given to him. The very first thing he said was "NOW GO ye therefore..."

Charles Spurgeon said “Every Christian is either a missionary or an impostor”.

We are all missionaries. Saying "those who are called to church planting" is exactly why the pinouts on churchindex.org are nationally pathetic. You'd see tens of thousands of Baptist, Lutheran, and Methodist pins. This is because these churches know what the commission is.

This is a culturally infused heresy to not go, and pick each other apart.

Well, you're certainly not picking anybody apart, are you?

Would you be willing to share with us the methods you use and successes you have had in your evangelistic efforts so that we can learn from your methods?

I second the request. Would love to hear more.

I too await a response. Mrbilliam seems to be good at throwing stones but not very good at offering solutions.