Lessons for the Church from the DC Riots

[Robert]

Maybe that's one of the best lessons for us to learn from the DC rights, period. With or without a ban on politics.

We are shunning politics. Get your terminology straight or no "Swayback" for you. Old GC should get that reference.

I was talking to a couple of friends last night. Not going to say how I talked to them or that we had really good meatloaf and a bean casserole that was quite delicious. I said the mistake that I see made was those in DC fell into the progressive's ideology of the end justifying the means. This is the justification of many of the lockdowns and actions that many of us are dealing with. In the end, it is worth it all and whatever we had to do to get there had to be done.

Anabaptist theology teaches us that the end never justifies the means and it is the journey that really matters, not the end result. If we stay on the right path, the end will tend to solve itself because God is guiding our direction and He will guide us to the right end, even if it is not an end we were expecting, because the end is just one part in a much bigger story.

[MaxPC]

I said the mistake that I see made was those in DC fell into the progressive's ideology of the end justifying the means. This is the justification of many of the lockdowns and actions that many of us are dealing with. In the end, it is worth it all and whatever we had to do to get there had to be done.

Anabaptist theology teaches us that the end never justifies the means and it is the journey that really matters, not the end result. If we stay on the right path, the end will tend to solve itself because God is guiding our direction and He will guide us to the right end, even if it is not an end we were expecting, because the end is just one part in a much bigger story.

Amen.

An excerpt from an article by Dwight Longenecker that, in my opinion, resonates with your statement:

In his Communism and the Conscience of the West he (Fulton Sheen) discusses the Antichrist:

The Antichrist will not be so called; otherwise he would have no followers. He will not wear red tights, nor vomit sulphur, nor carry a trident nor wave an arrowed tail as Mephistopheles in Faust. This masquerade has helped the Devil convince men that he does not exist. When no man recognizes him, the more power he exercises.

We must always remember that Satan comes as an angel of light. What he presents is always eminently reasonable. He offers the seemingly sensible way, the soft way, the way of compromise and ease. If he showed himself as the monster he is all would run howling in terror. Instead he offers a way out when we are in a jam, an alternative when the way of Christ seems difficult.

Nowhere in Sacred Scripture do we find warrant for the popular myth of the Devil as a buffoon who is dressed like the first “red.” Rather is he described as an angel fallen from heaven, as “the Prince of this world,” whose business it is to tell us that there is no other world.

When watching for the anti Christ we should be careful not to become too obsessed with one particular historical or contemporary figure. To be sure, there will be an anti Christ one day who seeks to take over the world and there will be his prophet who is a religious leader who seeks to deceive people with a fake system of spirituality.

However, we should also remember that down through history there have always been anti Christs and false prophets. Furthermore, there have also been systems of thought that have been antiChrists and systems of religion that are the false prophet.

At heart the Anti Christ is the ruler of this world. The false prophet teaches a religion that is only of this world.

All the world’s systems and false religions combine to convince us of this fact. Here are some of the anti Christ systems of thought prevalent in our culture today:

-Materialism: there is no other world. This is it.
-Scientism only scientifically tested knowledge is valid.
-Historicism there is not over-arching providence. History is random.
-Evolutionism the natural world develops at random. There is no divine plan.
-Utilitarianism what works is all that matters. Efficiency and economy are our gods.
-Rationalism there is no such thing as Revelation. Your reasoning power is your only access to truth.
-Sentimentalism your feelings are your only guide because there is no objective truth
-Moral Relativism there is no great Law. Therefore you may do as you wish. In fact this is the motto of diabolism: “Do as you Will.”

Fulton Sheen traces the logical consequence of a system that is bound only to this world and seeks to eliminate the unseen world.

Satan’s logic is simple: if there is no heaven there is no hell; if there is no hell, then there is no sin; if there is no sin, then there is no judge, and if there is no judgment then evil is good and good is evil. But above all these descriptions, Our Lord tells us that he will be so much like Himself that he would deceive even the elect–and certainly no devil ever seen in picture books could deceive even the elect.

Of course the elect will be deceived and follow the antichrist. They already do. To see what I mean continue reading Archbishop Sheen.

How will he come in this new age to win followers to his religion? The pre-Communist Russian belief is that he will come disguised as the Great Humanitarian; he will talk peace, prosperity and plenty not as means to lead us to God, but as ends in themselves.

Always beware the promise of a better world. There is always a price to pay for Utopia. Do not swallow the bait. Remember there is always free cheese in a mousetrap. Do not spend your time making this world a better place without first making sure you are going to the Best Place. The antichrist always offers us this world. He offered Christ himself all the kingdoms of this world. He does the same to us. He offers a wonderful world…one without God and his Son Christ the King.

Sheen explains what the religion of the anti Christ looks like:

this is the temptation to have a new religion without a Cross, a liturgy without a world to come, a religion to destroy a religion, or a politics which is a religion–one that renders unto Caesar even the things that are God’s. In the midst of all his seeming love for humanity and his glib talk of freedom and equality, he will have one great secret which he will tell to no one: he will not believe in God.

The antichrist will not believe in God, but he will be religious. Watch the political leaders give lip service to Christianity and the Church. During the election the politician will pray to get into office. After the election the people pray to get him out of office. The antichrist follows the Lord of this World and you can tell because all he cares about is this world.

Because his religion will be brotherhood of Man without the fatherhood of God, he will deceive even the elect. He will set up a counter church which will be the ape of the Church, because he, the Devil, is the ape of God. It will have all the notes and characteristics of the Church, but in reverse and emptied of its divine content. It will be a mystical body of the Antichrist that will in all externals resemble the mystical body of Christ. . . .

“The Ape of God” what a phrase! It reminds me of The Last Battle by C.S.Lewis in which an ape named Shift finds an old lion skin and persuades a stupid donkey named Puzzle to dress up as Aslan. The faithful Narnians are fooled by Shift and Puzzle because they had already given in and forgotten about Aslan. They had already compromised, so when the anti Aslan appeared they fell down before him. Dwight Longenecker

[Bootstrap]

Maybe that's one of the best lessons for us to learn from the DC rights, period. With or without a ban on politics.

We are shunning politics. Get your terminology straight or no "Swayback" for you. Old GC should get that reference.

I'm obviously not Old GC. Old, yes. GC, no. Any hints?

I was talking to a couple of friends last night. Not going to say how I talked to them or that we had really good meatloaf and a bean casserole that was quite delicious.

The lack of food really is a problem with MennoNet. Perhaps this is something the moderators should consider? I think it would improve the tone of discussions here. Mennonites without potlucks? Really?

I said the mistake that I see made was those in DC fell into the progressive's ideology of the end justifying the means. This is the justification of many of the lockdowns and actions that many of us are dealing with. In the end, it is worth it all and whatever we had to do to get there had to be done.

I don't think "the end justifies the means" belongs to any particular partisan tribe. But the quote is often associated with Niccolò Machiavelli, who did not actually use the phrase.

Machiavelli's name came to evoke unscrupulous acts of the sort he advised most famously in The Prince. Machiavelli considered political battles, not through a lens of morality, but as though they are a board game with established rules. His experience showed him that politics have always been played with deception, treachery and crime. He also notably said that a ruler who is establishing a kingdom or a republic, and is criticized for his deeds, including violence, should be excused when the intention and the result is beneficial. Machiavelli’s Prince was much read as a manuscript long before it was published in 1532 and the reaction was mixed. Some considered it a straightforward description of "the evil means used by bad rulers; others read in it evil recommendations to tyrants to help them maintain their power."

The term Machiavellian often connotes political deceit, deviousness, and realpolitik.

Machiavelli did say this - stressing the importance of appearances, perception, and power over truth. The opposite of the way of Jesus.

Men judge generally more by the eye than by the hand, because it belongs to everybody to see you, to few to come in touch with you. Every one sees what you appear to be, few really know what you are, and those few dare not oppose themselves to the opinion of the many, who have the majesty of the state to defend them; and in the actions of all men, and especially of princes, which it is not prudent to challenge, one judges by the result.

For that reason, let a prince have the credit of conquering and holding his state, the means will always be considered honest, and he will be praised by everybody because the vulgar are always taken by what a thing seems to be and by what comes of it; and in the world there are only the vulgar, for the few find a place there only when the many have no ground to rest on.

It's not clear whether Machiavelli was writing this as guidance to a ruler or as a subtly subversive critique. Machiavelli was arrested and tortured by agents of the Medici family, whose members he dedicated "The Prince" to.

But clearly, "the end justifies the means" is incompatible with any serious discipleship to Jesus Christ.

[temporal1]

We are shunning politics.
Get your terminology straight or no "Swayback" for you. Old GC should get that reference.

I was talking to a couple of friends last night. Not going to say how I talked to them or that we had really good meatloaf and a bean casserole that was quite delicious.

I said the mistake that I see made was those in DC fell into the progressive's ideology of the end justifying the means. This is the justification of many of the lockdowns and actions that many of us are dealing with. In the end, it is worth it all and whatever we had to do to get there had to be done.

Anabaptist theology teaches us that the end never justifies the means and it is the journey that really matters, not the end result.

If we stay on the right path, the end will tend to solve itself because God is guiding our direction and He will guide us to the right end, even if it is not an end we were expecting,
because the end is just one part in a much bigger story.

Yes. Lessons.
Christians are to teach Jesus’ response, His way. Refuting what is “common to man.”
“Our heads” are overly-saturated with media noise.

i pray the world would follow your lead on this forum: shun media+politics.

they exist only through people “buying what they’re selling.” stop buying. force them to go back to their authentic stated jobs, instead of throwing out “the easy stuff” - fighting. destroying.

it’s much harder to build than to destroy. any child can destroy.
Jesus offers His Way. The Way.

[Bootstrap]

Anabaptist theology teaches us that the end never justifies the means and it is the journey that really matters, not the end result. If we stay on the right path, the end will tend to solve itself because God is guiding our direction and He will guide us to the right end, even if it is not an end we were expecting, because the end is just one part in a much bigger story.

That's really good, Robert. And deeply biblical.

[Robert]

That's really good, Robert. And deeply biblical.

You are just trying to make sure you get your Sweiback.

[temporal1]

boot:
But clearly, "the end justifies the means" is incompatible with any serious discipleship to Jesus Christ.

A forum miracle.

[barnhart]

Anabaptist theology teaches us that the end never justifies the means and it is the journey that really matters, not the end result. If we stay on the right path, the end will tend to solve itself because God is guiding our direction and He will guide us to the right end, even if it is not an end we were expecting, because the end is just one part in a much bigger story.

That's really good, Robert. And deeply biblical.

Yes. Very good.

[Robert]

Yes. Very good.

Don't expect any more great insights from me this year. I used up my allotment on day 9.

[joshuabgood]

I personally know some BMA type Mennonites that were at the Capitol the other day. And I know many more that are very sympathetic with whatever it was that was driving that event.

The church should learn, but probably won't in some corners, that worldly political leaders are false saviours.