George Floyd

[RZehr]

Does anyone know how many black men have been killed in police custody vs. white men killed in police custody?

[Szdfan]

I've also been seeing posts on Facebook that at least some of the violence and damage are being caused by white supremacists and police officers in plain clothes in order to discredit the protesters and (in the case of the white supremacists) start a race war. I've seen video of a white man identified as a police officer smashing windows at an Auto Zone. He was confronted by protesters in the video. While it would not surprise me that this is happening, I'm reserving judgment until I have confirmation that this is really happening. The situation is still unfolding and there is a lot of misinformation out there. I want to be careful until more verified information is out there.

Could be. Is this worse that just regular straightforward rioting and looting?
It does change the storyline, but if I’m a Auto Zone manager, at the end of the day what does it matter if a white off duty policeman broke and stole or a black man who may be a off duty policeman or salesman did it? Or should we assume all the black looter are unemployed? Is that the insinuation? That none of them could be police?

The insinuation is that the police department and other actors are infiltrating the protests and encouraging or starting violence in an attempt to discredit the protests. I’m taking a “wait and see” approach to any of this.

[RZehr]

I thought conspiracy theories were right wing territory.

[Szdfan]

I thought conspiracy theories were right wing territory.

Oh no, there are plenty of left wing conspiracy theories out there...they just don’t post here.

[RZehr]

I can hardly imagine what is going on in Derek C’s mind as he sits in jail. I’m sure he woke up that day expecting another normal day. Probably had weekend plans, longer range plans.
Then he pulls this stupid stunt, maybe not all that differently than he has done many times over his career. But this time he kills a man. Just uses a bit more force than in the past. A culmination of habitual abuse of power, a disregard and distain for onlookers and their concern. Unfazed by pleas and video recording, unconsciously emboldened by his fellow offices lack of humanity.

[Dan Z]

I am in Minnesota. Many of the leaders of the African-American community, both religious and political, are repeating the narrative that Outside agitators (“Anarchists and Facists”) have inserted themselves into the situation here in Minnesota to sew mayhem for their own purposes. I agree with SZDfan that we need to wait and see who is being arrested - but the credibility of the claim seems to be gaining steam. Leaders are encouraging people to protest during the daytime, and shelter at home tonight.

I hope the President has the sense to stay out of this.

[barnhart]

For example multiple studies show that the numbers of white folks using illicit drugs is roughly the same as black folks, yet the data of who is prosecuted and jailed tell a different story. Do we have to examine the hearts of each individual person in the justice system and law enforcement to determine if racism is a problem?

This would be a systemic issue. Since the Chief of Police in Minneapolis is African-American, This suggests there is not systemic racism in the administration of the department. This is why I am saying it would only be racism if it is shown that this officer/s was/is racist. I see no reason not to charge them with negligent homicide and murder. What they did was wrong. Burning down cities will not bring him back. It will only harm more minorities who live in those cities.

I'm not trying to pick on you Robert, just your ideas. But I think you are missing the idea of systemic racism that infiltrates multiply layers of society and grows without conscious support. It doesn't require people with evil intentions, it only requires people to act in their own interests without considering how the world looks to others.

Fore example NY has some of the most segregated schools in the nation. No one planned it. No one really wanted it. No one wants black and brown kids in schools with less funding. I just happens naturally when everyone acts in their own best interest without regard to those with less voice. Black folks fall into it as well. They just want the best for their kids as well. When a nation/culture has its roots in white supremacy, the effects are long reaching and I don't think they go away without effort.

[Szdfan]

For example multiple studies show that the numbers of white folks using illicit drugs is roughly the same as black folks, yet the data of who is prosecuted and jailed tell a different story. Do we have to examine the hearts of each individual person in the justice system and law enforcement to determine if racism is a problem?

This would be a systemic issue. Since the Chief of Police in Minneapolis is African-American, This suggests there is not systemic racism in the administration of the department. This is why I am saying it would only be racism if it is shown that this officer/s was/is racist. I see no reason not to charge them with negligent homicide and murder. What they did was wrong. Burning down cities will not bring him back. It will only harm more minorities who live in those cities.

I'm not trying to pick on you Robert, just your ideas. But I think you are missing the idea of systemic racism that infiltrates multiply layers of society and grows without conscious support. It doesn't require people with evil intentions, it only requires people to act in their own interests without considering how the world looks to others.

I think Barnhart’s point speaks to the problem of only looking at things through a single lens — if you’re only looking at things at an individual level, you’re essentially blind to the ways that systems work and how they impact individual choices and decisions. To say that there was no systematic racism because the chief of police is black, is an inadequate analysis.

There’s a whole host of other questions that need to be answered when looking at things systematically. What was the culture of the Minneapolis PD before the current chief? What was the relationship between the PD and the communities they served? How effective has the current chief been at changing or impacting the police culture? Do the rank and file officers trust him? And so on.

When Freddie Gray was killed in Baltimore, the city and the police department were both headed by African-Americans. Yet their leadership did not erase decades of bad relationships and conflict between the police department and the communities they served. All that underlying tension boiled over and exploded when Gray was killed. It didn’t matter who was in charge.

[Pelerin]

There’s a video going around of “Amish” protesting in Minneapolis. They aren’t Amish, but they are some kind of Anabaptist. I couldn’t get a clear look at the video, but in think they wear veils, not caps. Has anyone else seen the video or know what church they’re from? I thought of Elmendorf, but they didn’t quite look Hutterite. I’ll see if I can find a link.

[Szdfan]

There’s a video going around of “Amish” protesting in Minneapolis. They aren’t Amish, but they are some kind of Anabaptist. I couldn’t get a clear look at the video, but in think they wear veils, not caps. Has anyone else seen the video or know what church they’re from? I thought of Elmendorf, but they didn’t quite look Hutterite. I’ll see if I can find a link.

The best information I’ve seen is that they are Church of God, Reformed — one of the Holiness groups.