CAM Molestation Issue

[Ambassador]

I agree with you Josh that this is in context of hurting children. I agree that some sins are "worse" and more damaging. But Jesus uses these same words in the sermon on the mount relating to lust and adultery. I am just cautioning us to be careful of cherry picking.

[Beeply]

Luke 13:1 ¶ There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

[hillperson]

He goes on and tells predators what to do if they find themselves committing those sins. It is extreme .....

7Woe to the world for the causes of sin. These stumbling blocks must come, but woe to the man through whom they come!

8If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than to have two hands and two feet and be thrown into the eternal fire. 9And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

I feel that this is very instructive for the church today in how to handle someone “who hurts children”. We need to take necessary measures to protect children -prison time, reporting, shadowing when the person is in a public place etc. (not holding any offices of ministry)

[MaxPC]

My experience has been that the older generation did understand the rapid changes in technology and were warning against where it would lead years ago. Their assessment was dead on and we now see more and more secular sources sounding the same warning.

Agreed and amen. Not all new is good. Not all old is bad.The internet was heralded as a means of greater access to education. Now it offers free porn. Sins are universal and those who remember those times and actions that let abusers roam free have been raising the alarm for years, not only in your circles but in Catholic World as well.

[Neto]

The context is linked to hurting children.

I don’t have a problem with elevating abusing children to be a sin significantly worse than other forms of sexual sin. Whilst all sins are bad, some cause immediate, permanent damage (such as murder).

In terms of exegetical interpretation, one must say that the context was a bit broader yet. He used the example of "child-like faith" as an example of the type of faith he wanted to see in everyone, then went on with the part quoted here. So specifically, he was saying this to people who destroyed that simple faith in children. This could certainly be applied to sexual predators, and to hurting children in other physical ways, but as I understand this text (and others like it) it is specifically speaking to causing spiritual damage of a permanent nature - basically spiritual death.

But am I to infer that you (HillPerson specifically, in giving this Scripture passage as an answer to my earlier question) are implying that sins of this type are unforgivable, something that will surely, without doubt, end in (spiritual) destruction and certain condemnation?

Added: HillPerson: I was just ready to post this when I saw your later post, where you mention "not holding any offices of ministry", so I think I should assume that you are NOT making the implication I was asking about above.

[hillperson]

Those sins are definitely forgivable.

The process to complete wholeness is a long one though. We had an Amish counsellor tell us that after five years people tend to let their guards down but that’s when often the abuse begins happening again.

When someone in the name of religion abuses lots of young children there is a darkness in soul. I believe the way he thinks is so warped and confused that he never again should be trusted to be alone with children.

It’s like a monkey on his back.....

[mike]

Our experiences are different. Your experience has clearly been positive and seems to relate much to those on the field. My genuine compassion is towards those missionaries who’ve given their lives out of love and are being negatively affected by this tragedy. To the contrary, the individuals I’ve known are some of those at top levels. You said well, “a few well-meaning but misguided.” The lack of understanding, of what is needed for an individual to change when involved in these actions, is such a gross lack of understanding at so many levels. When this is found in individuals at the top levels it does require a scrutinization of the organization as a whole. Further, what if so many of that era (age group) in our circles have operated in this way for a long time? And what if there are many who want that to change? And, what, or how much, of this is due to An older generation not really understanding the rapid changes that have occurred in our world due to technology and social media, and all the available information?

Don't fall into the trap of thinking the younger generation is so much more enlightened than the older generation. The older generation today (I'm talking the world at large) were the rebels in the 60's and 70's who thought they were so much smarter than their parents. If you don't like the lack of understanding in today's older generation (as a whole, not individually), don't repeat their mistake of thinking they knew more than their parents (again, as a whole, not individually). I say this as one that's part of the younger generation.

My experience has been that the older generation did understand the rapid changes in technology and were warning against where it would lead years ago. Their assessment was dead on and we now see more and more secular sources sounding the same warning.

I think G. K. Chesterton called this "chronological snobbery."

[Matt]

The irony in this whole issue is that while the internet/social media which is lifted up as the means by which this issue is exposed and not "swept under the rug", it may well be the source by which JMast originally fed and grew his lust. I'm not saying there wasn't this kind of sin before the internet but the easy availability of feeding a struggling lust has increased. JMast would have been a young man at the dawn of the internet era, before the dangers were as known and safeguards available...

[queserasera_2]

There is absolutely no reason someone under the age of 21 needs a smartphone. I'd argue there's very little reason for one at all that can't be addressed in another way.. I'm 36 and don't have one and get along just fine. My husband, same. If our children have a phone, it will be a shared phone.

[Aurien]

Let's remember that technology is a tool and it's not inherently good or evil. It all depends on how a person uses it. If someone is wary of technology they have the choice to either avoid it altogether or learn how to use it in a safe and productive way.