Single Mention Doctrine

[JohnH]

The vast majority, if not all, of what Protestants call speaking in tongues is at best hysteria.

I absolutely accept that the Holy Spirit has given individuals gifts of communication in various was. But not gibberish

I am sure many will disagree. That’s fine

A good topic, but perhaps best in another thread, where we can debate this further.

[Neto]

Standing for prayer - Yes, it "feels genuine" to me, maybe mostly because I was taught that both standing and kneeling are expressions of respect and submission, respectively.

Just as these postures of prayer are meaningful to me, the raising of hands is as well. Actually, all of these things should be done on a voluntary basis, from the heart, not 'from the front'.

I'm still struggling to understand why standing feels genuine, even if the person up front says it is time to stand

yet it should be voluntary and not directed from the front.

I don't know how to explain more than above, where I said "maybe mostly because I was taught" that way. Standing out of respect (even as in for a country's flag) is a very common cultural 'more'. I might add that in my religious \ cultural background (Mennonite Brethren), the front of the meeting area was not considered somehow 'more holy' than the rest of the room. Actually, while I grew up with parental rules about 'respecting the church house' (like not running or playing in it), traditionally congregational meetings were often in a school house. Soon after the original church house where I grew up was built (in 1917-1920), the stage was taken out and lowered by about half of the original height, because they felt that it might create the danger of communicating the impression of 'prominence', or that it put the pastor above the people in some way.

In respect to the raising of hands, the issue of 'showiness' and pride has already been mentioned. (I think I mentioned here that once, while attending an American Baptist congregation near the Bible college in Minn., I forgot that the pastor or whoever was directing that part of the service had not told everyone to close their eyes. I forgot that I might be the only one who was standing for that hymn with my eyes closed, and I raised both arms high, and probably swayed back and forth, until I remembered that not everyone else had their eyes closed. I brought my arms back to my side, because I didn't want to make a show of things. So sometimes I "have my arms raised inside of myself".)

The problem with being asked to stand to sing is that it's never for just one or two songs - it's for 20 minutes straight, and I'm not exaggerating. Sometimes it's even longer. Most Sunday mornings the pastors close the meeting with a prayer, then have the music team do another song. They always ask everyone to stand, and I suspect that everyone does (we do). Everyone that has back problems that are worsened by standing for a long time knows that it's only for the prayer and one song, not for another long stretch. (When I first injured my back, at around 20 years of age, I appreciated it that when the congregation was asked to stand, the first thing after that was almost always a prayer. That way, no one had to see me slowly struggle to my feet, slowly straightening up due to the severe pain.)

[barnhart]

If I had that sort of injury, I would sit, or maybe stand for bit then sit. My back can't take too much sitting, standing is a relief so I have already stood at the back when it flared up.

[Ernie]

If I had that sort of injury, I would sit, or maybe stand for bit then sit. My back can't take too much sitting, standing is a relief so I have already stood at the back when it flared up.

I have been sitting now for a number of years when everyone else stands due to back issues. (or stand for a bit and then sit)

It has been good for me to experience a touch of what handicapped people need to deal with all their lives.

I would much prefer the leader say, "You are welcome to stand with me if you wish." Instead of "Let's all stand." But I never thought much about this until I couldn't stand anymore.

[Valerie]

If I had that sort of injury, I would sit, or maybe stand for bit then sit. My back can't take too much sitting, standing is a relief so I have already stood at the back when it flared up.

I have been sitting now for a number of years when everyone else stands due to back issues. (or stand for a bit and then sit)

It has been good for me to experience a touch of what handicapped people need to deal with all their lives.

I would much prefer the leader say, "You are welcome to stand with me if you wish." Instead of "Let's all stand." But I never thought much about this until I couldn't stand anymore.

The very first orthodox church we attended the men stood on one side, and the women stood on the other side and they stood for over two hours however, they provide chairs along the perimeter for those that can’t stand like that which I think was very kind. If I see people sitting, and I’m sure most people here would feel the same. They’d realize it was because the person is unable to handle standing like that and doesn’t judge them for that I never do at least.

[Neto]

If I had that sort of injury, I would sit, or maybe stand for bit then sit. My back can't take too much sitting, standing is a relief so I have already stood at the back when it flared up.

For me, walking doesn't cause the discomfort that just standing still does. Not sure why that is, but just standing in one place is what does it for me. But if the standing was broken up into smaller duration, then we would stand. I can do one or two songs, that's about it. And now that I'm mostly retired, I'm very active physically the rest of the week. (Doing repair & remodel work on a house where we plan to move as soon as we can get it finished. My wife has started installing the plank flooring that will go in throughout the house. Last week I was working on replacing a 9 foot section of wall between the laundry and the garage. Now I've been installing some cabinets in the living room, where there will be an electric 'fire place', and a large screen/monitor. On each side of that there are two 42" wide cabinets, with a shelf unit on top of each, that goes up to the ceiling. Those shelves are too heavy for me to lift, but I managed to get them in place without marring the cabinet tops. It was a multi-step process.)

[JayP]

I am laughing Valerie but not at you

Most Orthodox liturgies are not that long but I once attended a full Easter Russian Orthodox service that went three hours

Gives new meaning to standing

[JoyE]

The vast majority, if not all, of what Protestants call speaking in tongues is at best hysteria.

That's a pretty broad condemnation, considering the NT teaching on the gift. Also I'm not sure how you would be privy to the content of "the vast majority" of speaking in tongues.

[JayP]

I am sure it is controversial. I have no doubt the NT teachings that some received a gift of tongues is true.

Now, what that actually is……

I do not mean to offend, but sorry, jabbering and gibberish is not a gift of communication. The passage where Peter preached yet everyone heard it in their own language is, I believe, a wonderful example of that gift.

Someone jibbering away is not a gift to the rest of us.

We can easily see how God and man benefited from all hearing Peter. What is the benefit of the gibberish? The idea that it is a “secret” language is at best, sill and about self aggrandizement, at worst fraud.

[Soloist]

I am sure it is controversial. I have no doubt the NT teachings that some received a gift of tongues is true.

Now, what that actually is……

I do not mean to offend, but sorry, jabbering and gibberish is not a gift of communication. The passage where Peter preached yet everyone heard it in their own language is, I believe, a wonderful example of that gift.

Someone jibbering away is not a gift to the rest of us.

We can easily see how God and man benefited from all hearing Peter. What is the benefit of the gibberish? The idea that it is a “secret” language is at best, sill and about self aggrandizement, at worst fraud.

Wife: I don’t know how it is at all the Pentecostal churches since I only attended as a visitor with my dad‘s girlfriend for a while. I know that my aunt tried to teach me how to speak in tongues once as a teenager, and I refused because I figured it wasn’t a gift if I had to be taught, and it just sounded like allowing gibberish to flow. She was from a random offshoot though, and I don’t know what the norm is. I do remember one time visiting an Assembly of God church where they interpreted as well.

That reminds me of another single mentioned doctrine that Baptist would likely believe. Not all have the gift of tongues. I personally am more sympathetic to the Pentecostals who don’t make it a requirement of salvation/and or the Holy Spirit.