Watercolor painting and artistic expression

[Ernie]

Sculpture? I think most Plain Anabaptists are fine with this but not ok with spending exorbitant amounts of time and resources for it.
Historically, I think Anabaptists have viewed art as something to add a bit of spice and color to life, but not something that should be made and end in itself.

Theatre? Well... as mentioned earlier... playing someone you are not is something Plain Anabaptists have not seen as virtuous. (Plus all the other things that normally go along with theatre.) This greatly reduces the genres for theatre.
I would be interested in reviewing a proposal for how Plain Anabaptists could utilize theatre art without compromising N.T. principles.

I think I disagree that most Plain Anabaptists are OK with much in the way of sculpture, except that most of them are quite OK with children doing it in their play. Wouldn't most of us think that graven images are still unsuitable for God's people?

You might be right about this. Once when we were in China, a street vendor was making busts of people who were willing to sit for 20-30 minutes while he made a clay sculpture of them. He was very skilled and the resemblances were very accurate. I didn't have time to wait or I would have had him do a bust for me. But you are correct that probably most Old Orders would have not done this.
I don't think Old Orders have a problem with sculptures of things other than humans, though, correct? I might be mistaken. Do they forbid they children from playing with toy animals?

The objection to theatre dates back to the early days of the church. Why would we even want to try to figure out a way to make the use of the devil's tools acceptable?

Good teaching is an art. (Plain Anabaptists send their teachers to skilled teachers and publish books on this.)
Good preaching is an art. (Most Plain Anabaptists enjoy listening to preachers who have mastered this art.)
Good singing is an art.
I suppose praying aloud can also be an art, and I've heard this done already, but I understand Jesus to say that this defeats the purpose.

So what about all the other art forms/mediums not mentioned in the New Testament?

Visual Arts: Painting, sculpture, architecture, drawing, printmaking, ceramics, textile art, interior design, graphic design, photography, filmmaking, animation, and digital media.

Performing Arts:
Music: Vocal, instrumental, and composition.
Theatre: Acting, musical theatre, improvisation, and puppetry.
Dance: Ballet, contemporary, hip-hop, and choreography.
Other Forms: Stand-up comedy, performance art, and circus acts.

Literary Arts:
Prose: Novels, short stories, and essays.
Poetry: Lyrical, epic, and dramatic verse.
Drama: Scripts and plays designed for theatrical performance.

Culinary Arts:
The preparation and presentation of food as an aesthetic and creative craft.

Which of these are acceptable? Which are devil's tools? Which are of the world? Which are neutral depending on how they are used?

[barnhart]

The objection to theatre dates back to the early days of the church. Why would we even want to try to figure out a way to make the use of the devil's tools acceptable?

Theatre is a way of telling a story. I have seen theatrical productions that left me inspired...and that really resonated. Among the best, though with mature themes to be sure, Les Mis.

That was a truly moving production. I wondered how many people in the building understood the deeper message below the surface themes like love and duty.

[barnhart]

Good teaching is an art. (Plain Anabaptists send their teachers to skilled teachers and publish books on this.)
Good preaching is an art. (Most Plain Anabaptists enjoy listening to preachers who have mastered this art.)
Good singing is an art.

I agree, but we don't treat them the same. I doubt many churches would be content to read sermons from the Martyrs Mirror or some other august source in place of preaching/teaching from a person in their assembly. Yet we do something similar with music.

[joshuabgood]

Which of these are acceptable?

All of the above can be expressions to bring glory to God.

I am an amateur chess player...and even chess games can be beautiful. As crazy as that sounds...it makes perfect sense to a chess player. Same with futbol, some goals/saves etc...are beautiful.

[Ernie]

Good teaching is an art. (Plain Anabaptists send their teachers to skilled teachers and publish books on this.)
Good preaching is an art. (Most Plain Anabaptists enjoy listening to preachers who have mastered this art.)
Good singing is an art.

I agree, but we don't treat them the same. I doubt many churches would be content to read sermons from the Martyrs Mirror or some other august source in place of preaching/teaching from a person in their assembly. Yet we do something similar with music.

In what way?

I hear preachers and teachers saying things that are not original with them and in a way that is not original with them while adding some of their own thoughts and style.

CA produced hymnbooks do the same. They have old hymns plus new contemporary ones.

[ken_sylvania]

Sculpture? I think most Plain Anabaptists are fine with this but not ok with spending exorbitant amounts of time and resources for it.
Historically, I think Anabaptists have viewed art as something to add a bit of spice and color to life, but not something that should be made and end in itself.

Theatre? Well... as mentioned earlier... playing someone you are not is something Plain Anabaptists have not seen as virtuous. (Plus all the other things that normally go along with theatre.) This greatly reduces the genres for theatre.
I would be interested in reviewing a proposal for how Plain Anabaptists could utilize theatre art without compromising N.T. principles.

I think I disagree that most Plain Anabaptists are OK with much in the way of sculpture, except that most of them are quite OK with children doing it in their play. Wouldn't most of us think that graven images are still unsuitable for God's people?

You might be right about this. Once when we were in China, a street vendor was making busts of people who were willing to sit for 20-30 minutes while he made a clay sculpture of them. He was very skilled and the resemblances were very accurate. I didn't have time to wait or I would have had him do a bust for me. But you are correct that probably most Old Orders would have not done this.
I don't think Old Orders have a problem with sculptures of things other than humans, though, correct? I might be mistaken. Do they forbid they children from playing with toy animals?

Toy animals are not sculptures. But you might have noticed that I specifically said I think most Plain Anabaptists are ok with children doing sculpture in their play. I was thinking in particular about the snowmen and other snow creatures that appear after a good snowstorm. Cast iron horse's heads on hitching posts don't really seem to be considered a problem, but it would seem weird to see a sculpted lion in a Plain Mennonite's garden.

[HondurasKeiser]

Visual Arts: Painting, sculpture, architecture, drawing, printmaking, ceramics, textile art, interior design, graphic design, photography, filmmaking, animation, and digital media.

Performing Arts:
Music: Vocal, instrumental, and composition.
Theatre: Acting, musical theatre, improvisation, and puppetry.
Dance: Ballet, contemporary, hip-hop, and choreography.
Other Forms: Stand-up comedy, performance art, and circus acts.

Literary Arts:
Prose: Novels, short stories, and essays.
Poetry: Lyrical, epic, and dramatic verse.
Drama: Scripts and plays designed for theatrical performance.

Culinary Arts:
The preparation and presentation of food as an aesthetic and creative craft.

Which of these are acceptable? Which are devil's tools? Which are of the world? Which are neutral depending on how they are used?

Are those the right questions? The devil can use any man-made thing for his tools including the austerity of Mennonite meetinghouses (which I happen to find beautiful and architectural gems). I think though that these various artforms, insofar as they strive for beauty, are vehicles for drawing people, believers and nonbelievers alike, if ever so subtly, towards God. Indeed, the example above of "good singing" or people weeping at hearing 4-part harmony is fundamentally about the beauty of the form. The beauty of our singing is what moves people, draws them in - it's what I miss most living in Honduras. When something beautiful is performed or created it necessarily draws one to God because God is the source and the standard of Beauty. Beautiful things are Good and True and those are the very attributes of God. Eschewing beauty, or even vilifying it as worldly strikes me as a rejection of God's good gifts.

[Ernie]

When something beautiful is performed or created it necessarily draws one to God because God is the source and the standard of Beauty. Beautiful things are Good and True and those are the very attributes of God.

Before we get into your other thoughts and questions...

Do you think it is possible for something to be admired as beautiful, while at the same time rejecting the pursuit of creating such beauty, because a particular art creation is not expedient or edifying?

Or do these concepts feel like an oxymoron to you?

[HondurasKeiser]

When something beautiful is performed or created it necessarily draws one to God because God is the source and the standard of Beauty. Beautiful things are Good and True and those are the very attributes of God.

Before we get into your other thoughts and questions...

Do you think it is possible for something to be admired as beautiful, while at the same time rejecting the pursuit of creating such beauty, because a particular art creation is not expedient or edifying?

Or do these concepts feel like an oxymoron to you?

Can you think of an example to aid me in my response?

[ken_sylvania]

When something beautiful is performed or created it necessarily draws one to God because God is the source and the standard of Beauty. Beautiful things are Good and True and those are the very attributes of God.

Before we get into your other thoughts and questions...

Do you think it is possible for something to be admired as beautiful, while at the same time rejecting the pursuit of creating such beauty, because a particular art creation is not expedient or edifying?

Or do these concepts feel like an oxymoron to you?

Can you think of an example to aid me in my response?

Maybe fireworks shows?