Why I Cannot Support Death Penalty

[Dan Z]

DanZ:
3) And that's really my biggest struggle personally with the whole thing. I have no issue conceding the state will do what it sees fit in its carnal context, but as a Christian who has glimpsed the beautiful and restorative ethics of Jesus, and as one who is called to bear witness to His better way, how can I lend even passive support for something he teaches against? And doesn't that support undercut our witness (and perhaps exposes our lack of belief in the redemptive power of non-resistant love)? By the way, I come out at the same place regarding war - while I concede that war is an inevitable function of the world's fallen present context, as one taught to love my enemies, I cannot lend my voice of support for warfare and other types of polite violence.

For me, resisting dog whistles of organized political blocs is key. Not easy! But central.
This is how many Christians are scooped-up in ways probably not intended.

In support:

• “I believe a significant segment of American evangelicalism is guilty of nationalistic and political idolatry. To a frightful degree, I think, evangelicals fuse the kingdom of God with a preferred version of the kingdom of the world (whether it’s our national interests, a particular form of government, a particular political program, or so on). Rather than focusing our understanding of God’s kingdom on the person of Jesus—who, incidentally, never allowed himself to get pulled into the political disputes of his day—I believe many of us American evangelicals have allowed our understanding of the kingdom of God to be polluted with political ideals, agendas, and issues.” - Greg Boyd, The Myth of a Christian Nation

[temporal1]

In support:
“I believe a significant segment of American evangelicalism is guilty of nationalistic and political idolatry. To a frightful degree, I think, evangelicals fuse the kingdom of God with a preferred version of the kingdom of the world (whether it’s our national interests, a particular form of government, a particular political program, or so on).

Rather than focusing our understanding of God’s kingdom on the person of
Jesus—who, incidentally, never allowed himself to get pulled into the political disputes of his day
—I believe many of us American evangelicals have allowed our understanding of the kingdom of God to be polluted with political ideals, agendas, and issues.” - Greg Boyd, The Myth of a Christian Nation

Because i’m not Honduras Keiser, i did not know G Boyd’s name.
It’s hard for me to understand if this quote is specific to the topic of the death penalty, or a general comment.
i read about awful “American evangelicals” on this forum, i don’t live in a culture described like that, but i won’t say it doesn’t exist.

what i see is ALL Christians impacted by being pulled into politics (dog whistles). i believe in the U.S., “the death penalty” is one of the strongest dog whistles there is, for or against. i hate to say it, but, not unlike abortion, i believe it’s all driven by big money.
the pattern in media is crystal clear: no money at stake, no air time.

“to repeat, Jesus freely offers eternal salvation, not pardon from earthly gov-mandated execution.”

this is a very touchy distinction for Christians. mercy+grace in eternity versus gov-mandated justice (even when unjust).
courts of law are not perfect. they weren’t for Jesus, they aren’t now.

this is where (saints) like Joy, mike, george, maybe yourself (?) carry a heavy burden along with the incarcerated. the incarcerated involve many alongside them, they are not alone. crimes+sins are not isolated events. there is ripple effect that affects many, not just the direct victim(s). these are not there by choice or mercy. crimes+sins come with high prices.

Gregory A. Boyd (born June 2, 1957) is an American theologian, pastor, and author.
Boyd is Senior Pastor of Woodland Hills Church in St. Paul, Minnesota and President of Reknew.org.[1]

He is one of the leading spokesmen in the growing Neo-Anabaptism movement, which is based in the tradition of Anabaptism and advocates Christian pacifism and a non-violent understanding of God.

Gregory A. Boyd
Boyd in 2017
Born June 2, 1957 (age 64)
Nationality American
Education
University of Minnesota
Yale Divinity School
Princeton Theological Seminary
Occupation
Theologian, pastor, author

Boyd has also long been known as a leading advocate of open theism.[2][3][4] In addition, he is known for his writings on the relationship between Christianity and politics, including his best-selling book The Myth of a Christian Nation, which was written after The New York Times published a front-page cover article on Boyd's criticism of the Christian right.[5][6][7][8]

In 2010, Boyd was listed as one of the twenty most influential living Christian scholars.[9]
In addition to The New York Times, Boyd has also made appearances on CNN, NPR, the BBC, and The Charlie Rose Show.[10] ..

personally, i wouldn’t follow G Boyd, on the basis of these few paragraphs which reek of biased politics, with a mention of Jesus’ perfection thrown in for good measure. (i.e., he gets published in the left mainstream.)

i find it a bit creepy for “Anabaptist” (even with “neo”) to be used to describe him.
but, hey. it’s a free country. anyone can say anything. (or, that’s how it was intended for awhile.)

i think Christians (by definition, not right or left) have a hard time focusing on ALL that Jesus did, without leaving out “bits.”
like, the bit about submitting to just and unjust gov mandates on the cross.

how do Christians get this right? maybe it’s a hard question when we don’t like (or trust) the answer.

i know i don’t like the answer of the gov-mandated death penalty. i’m grateful it’s almost a non-issue in the U.S.
“no stone is left unturned” in effort to avoid it.

now what to do with the VAST DEATH PENALTY (homicides+abortions) levied without mercy, grace, legal representation?
prevention is the hope. Jesus offers His Way. the sooner we meet Him, the better.

sorry if i missed your point.

[Josh]

Most people who criticise Christians being pulled into politics actually mean “I don’t like it when Christians support a political party I don’t like”.

For example, anyone who thinks refugees need help migrating to America obviously believes in American exceptionalism and nationalism; they usually are conveniently allied with the left as well.

Likewise, opposition to the death penalty is merely a left wing political position. Jesus never criticised the death penalty which was quite common in his day.

Rather, he called his followers to repent and seek a heavenly kingdom instead of trying to fix the Roman Empire.

[Ernie]

For example, anyone who thinks refugees need help migrating to America obviously believes in American exceptionalism and nationalism; they usually are conveniently allied with the left as well.

This is an assumption but it is not a fact. This is not accurate information.

[Ken]

Likewise, opposition to the death penalty is merely a left wing political position. Jesus never criticised the death penalty which was quite common in his day.

Rather, he called his followers to repent and seek a heavenly kingdom instead of trying to fix the Roman Empire.

Jesus also never once criticized abortion despite the fact that it was probably much more common than the death penalty in his day.

Would it be equally accurate for me to assert like you just did that "opposition to abortion is merely a right wing political position. Jesus never criticized abortion which was quite common in his day."

[Josh]

For example, anyone who thinks refugees need help migrating to America obviously believes in American exceptionalism and nationalism; they usually are conveniently allied with the left as well.

This is an assumption but it is not a fact. This is not accurate information.

Sure it is.

If America isn’t some exceptionally amazing country better than Afghanistan - why do any Afghanis need to be moved here?

[Josh]

Likewise, opposition to the death penalty is merely a left wing political position. Jesus never criticised the death penalty which was quite common in his day.

Rather, he called his followers to repent and seek a heavenly kingdom instead of trying to fix the Roman Empire.

Jesus also never once criticized abortion despite the fact that it was probably much more common than the death penalty in his day.

Would it be equally accurate for me to assert like you just did that "opposition to abortion is merely a right wing political position. Jesus never criticized abortion which was quite common in his day."

Jesus certainly criticised harming children, let alone murdering them. I don’t think he made exceptions for a child that’s very young.

[ken_sylvania]

For example, anyone who thinks refugees need help migrating to America obviously believes in American exceptionalism and nationalism; they usually are conveniently allied with the left as well.

This is an assumption but it is not a fact. This is not accurate information.

Sure it is.

If America isn’t some exceptionally amazing country better than Afghanistan - why do any Afghanis need to be moved here?

Maybe so the US doesn't blow them up with a missile for carrying water home in their car....

[Josh]

This is an assumption but it is not a fact. This is not accurate information.

Sure it is.

If America isn’t some exceptionally amazing country better than Afghanistan - why do any Afghanis need to be moved here?

Maybe so the US doesn't blow them up with a missile for carrying water home in their car....

That’s a good reason! But it seems strange to blow people up in their home country, and then say they desperately need to be relocated here.

[ken_sylvania]

Sure it is.

If America isn’t some exceptionally amazing country better than Afghanistan - why do any Afghanis need to be moved here?

Maybe so the US doesn't blow them up with a missile for carrying water home in their car....

That’s a good reason! But it seems strange to blow people up in their home country, and then say they desperately need to be relocated here.

You have probably noticed that there are some people who will never let "good enough" alone, but feel like they must always shuffle things around, make an impact, and generally make themselves feel useful and needed. It is my opinion that the rule to "first, do no harm" would be a good rule for US foreign policy.