Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

[Sudsy]

i still see one focused on "before" the Cross, and one approach "after and because of" the Cross

The cruciocentric Gospel is focused on "after and because of the cross."
The Christocentric Gospel is focused on "before and after and because of the cross and includes the life and teachings of Christ and includes joining the kingdom of God and bringing the kingdom of God to earth."

So, is the Gospel we share winning souls or not ? That is bottom line for me. Results matter.

The true Gospel is the power of God unto salvation and we can just be spinning our wheels on our views on what all good news needs to be known to be initially saved and never get to becoming a soul winner. That is one of the problems with some faith groups that they can spend many, many hours debating that their views are better than others rather than actually taking the Gospel as they understand it and seeing people become born again and followers of Jesus.

Paul calls the Gospel that He preached and won many to Christ as the 'Gospel that saves us'. He then goes on to explain the core beliefs of this Gospel and what he calls 'of first importance'. To me, this is the same as what Jesus said when He said unless we are born again we cannot experience the Kingdom of God.

I am quite familiar with seeing the dramatic changes that occur, especially with unchurched people, that truly is a new birth. It happened in my immediate family, relatives and acquaintances. How many are we seeing in our sharing of the Gospel that is having this experience of once blind but now I see ? If none than perhaps our understanding of the Gospel that saves is suspect.

My problem is not understanding what people need to know to be saved but rather getting myself back involved more directly with the lost and sharing how to be saved. Too much 'come out from among them' rather than what Jesus did in being 'a friend of sinners'.

[HondurasKeiser]

i still see one focused on "before" the Cross, and one approach "after and because of" the Cross

The cruciocentric Gospel is focused on "after and because of the cross."
The Christocentric Gospel is focused on "before and after and because of the cross and includes the life and teachings of Christ and includes joining the kingdom of God and bringing the kingdom of God to earth."

So, is the Gospel we share winning souls or not ? That is bottom line for me. Results matter.

The true Gospel is the power of God unto salvation and we can just be spinning our wheels on our views on what all good news needs to be known to be initially saved and never get to becoming a soul winner. That is one of the problems with some faith groups that they can spend many, many hours debating that their views are better than others rather than actually taking the Gospel as they understand it and seeing people become born again and followers of Jesus.

Paul calls the Gospel that He preached and won many to Christ as the 'Gospel that saves us'. He then goes on to explain the core beliefs of this Gospel and what he calls 'of first importance'. To me, this is the same as what Jesus said when He said unless we are born again we cannot experience the Kingdom of God.

I am quite familiar with seeing the dramatic changes that occur, especially with unchurched people, that truly is a new birth. It happened in my immediate family, relatives and acquaintances. How many are we seeing in our sharing of the Gospel that is having this experience of once blind but now I see ? If none than perhaps our understanding of the Gospel that saves is suspect.

My problem is not understanding what people need to know to be saved but rather getting myself back involved more directly with the lost and sharing how to be saved. Too much 'come out from among them' rather than what Jesus did in being 'a friend of sinners'.

Is our commission to "win souls" or make disciples?

[joshuabgood]

The cruciocentric Gospel is focused on "after and because of the cross."
The Christocentric Gospel is focused on "before and after and because of the cross and includes the life and teachings of Christ and includes joining the kingdom of God and bringing the kingdom of God to earth."

So, is the Gospel we share winning souls or not ? That is bottom line for me. Results matter.

The true Gospel is the power of God unto salvation and we can just be spinning our wheels on our views on what all good news needs to be known to be initially saved and never get to becoming a soul winner. That is one of the problems with some faith groups that they can spend many, many hours debating that their views are better than others rather than actually taking the Gospel as they understand it and seeing people become born again and followers of Jesus.

Paul calls the Gospel that He preached and won many to Christ as the 'Gospel that saves us'. He then goes on to explain the core beliefs of this Gospel and what he calls 'of first importance'. To me, this is the same as what Jesus said when He said unless we are born again we cannot experience the Kingdom of God.

I am quite familiar with seeing the dramatic changes that occur, especially with unchurched people, that truly is a new birth. It happened in my immediate family, relatives and acquaintances. How many are we seeing in our sharing of the Gospel that is having this experience of once blind but now I see ? If none than perhaps our understanding of the Gospel that saves is suspect.

My problem is not understanding what people need to know to be saved but rather getting myself back involved more directly with the lost and sharing how to be saved. Too much 'come out from among them' rather than what Jesus did in being 'a friend of sinners'.

Is our commission to "win souls" or make disciples?

Indeed. The Great commission has nothing to do with "evangelism" and everything to do with discipleship.

[ken_sylvania]

i still see one focused on "before" the Cross, and one approach "after and because of" the Cross

The cruciocentric Gospel is focused on "after and because of the cross."
The Christocentric Gospel is focused on "before and after and because of the cross and includes the life and teachings of Christ and includes joining the kingdom of God and bringing the kingdom of God to earth."

So, is the Gospel we share winning souls or not ? That is bottom line for me. Results matter.

The true Gospel is the power of God unto salvation and we can just be spinning our wheels on our views on what all good news needs to be known to be initially saved and never get to becoming a soul winner. That is one of the problems with some faith groups that they can spend many, many hours debating that their views are better than others rather than actually taking the Gospel as they understand it and seeing people become born again and followers of Jesus.

Paul calls the Gospel that He preached and won many to Christ as the 'Gospel that saves us'. He then goes on to explain the core beliefs of this Gospel and what he calls 'of first importance'. To me, this is the same as what Jesus said when He said unless we are born again we cannot experience the Kingdom of God.

I am quite familiar with seeing the dramatic changes that occur, especially with unchurched people, that truly is a new birth. It happened in my immediate family, relatives and acquaintances. How many are we seeing in our sharing of the Gospel that is having this experience of once blind but now I see ? If none than perhaps our understanding of the Gospel that saves is suspect.

My problem is not understanding what people need to know to be saved but rather getting myself back involved more directly with the lost and sharing how to be saved. Too much 'come out from among them' rather than what Jesus did in being 'a friend of sinners'.

OK, if results matter, let's do a tally?

What's your tally of souls that have been won for Christ in the past two years through your sharing of the Gospel as you understand it?

Ernie, mind sharing your tally of the same?

[Soloist]

It would not surprise me if Ernie has zero interest in doing such.

[barnhart]

Jesus was not very successful at "winning souls" if we measure by tallying his followers. At one point they all fled.

[Ernie]

yeah... I'm concentrating on making disciples, not winning souls. So I would not know how to figure souls won for Christ.

[Sudsy]

Is our commission to "win souls" or make disciples?

Indeed. The Great commission has nothing to do with "evangelism" and everything to do with discipleship.

This is likely the answer to this thread's title.

If an Anabaptist does not believe that the start point of making disciples is to lead a sinner to be first born again, then that may account for why many Anabaptists are failing at reaching the masses. In our area, the Anabaptists that are reaching the lost and growing with previously unchurched people, believe that a true disciple first needs to be born again and receive the Holy Spirit to live within them.

I wonder sometimes if some Anabaptists just don't like using the term 'born again' because they don't want to be considered as Evangelical or perhaps they don't actually believe one needs to be born again to become a disciple of Jesus. I believe the born again experience is the first step in the disciple making process but it certainly is not the final step.

Well, I best move on to other threads as I think the answer to the thread's title is quite obvious in some of the replies.

[Josh]

Where does the Bible teach it is the first step?

[ken_sylvania]

But bottom line for me is, are we getting people, primarily the unchurched, saved with our methods ? If not, then I think we need to study why.

And again the question is, what do we mean by "getting people saved". As we discussed earlier, people who profess Christianity do preach different Gospels.
After baptizing the believer I mentioned earlier, we arranged a meeting with an Evangelical lady from her country, who had experience living as a Christian in a country that makes life difficult for active Christians. As they talked, we could not understand what was being said as we did not know their language. But after it was over, the new believer told us that the Christian message the Evangelical lady presented to her, was different from the Gospel she had heard from us.
Even a new believer can tell the difference.

Yes, I don't yet understand the gospel some here seem to believe that saves us. The Gospel I believe has an entry point to 'getting people saved' as simply stated with these few references -

Romans 10:9, “If you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Acts 16:31 - The jailor asked Paul and Silas “What must I do to be saved?” The answer was “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.”

What is of first importance that one must believe then about Jesus to be saved ? Paul explains this as the Gospel that saves us - 1 Cor 15 AMP

For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to [that which] the Scriptures [foretold], and that He was buried, and that He was [bodily] raised on the third day according to [that which] the Scriptures [foretold], and that He appeared (and he goes on to give a list of who God appeared to)

By this faith you are saved [reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose], if you hold firmly to the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain [just superficially and without complete commitment].

Nothing more, nothing less.

At this initial point, we are born again. Exactly what Jesus said was necessary to enter His Kingdom. When we do believe the Holy Spirit comes to live within us and begins to work His work of sanctification in us as we co-operate with Him.

Any other gospel other than this, to me, is not the Gospel that saves us.

I think it's fair to say that as long a person is a servant of sin and a child of the devil they have not been saved.
Jesus told the Jews that it wasn't enough to believe in Him, but that they needed to (1)continue in His word and (2)stop committing sin, in order to be free. So that has to be included as part and parcel of the Gospel that saves us.