Miller Farms fined

[Judas Maccabeus]

i’m wondering if this is an example of Anabaptists being harder on Anabaptists than they would be others/unknowns?

Maybe a little bit. If he wasn’t Amish, but was instead some other religion I would simply shrug it off. But in this case, I believe strongly that he isn’t being faithful to the what we hold to, in addition to whatever else he is disobeying the government on.
In the case of some other religion, I wouldn’t really care or know about how he is or isn’t following his religious teachings.

He isn't making any religious freedom claims whatsoever.

So his Amish-ness doesn't seem relevant to the case as far as I'm concerned.

If I recall correctly, his defense has "sovereign citizen" undertones. Any lawyer that goes into a case with that sort of defense should be disbarred.

[Josh]

I suspect Barnes knows better than to use a bogus legal strategy. He probably faces a bigger challenge from his client than the courts…

[Judas Maccabeus]

I suspect Barnes knows better than to use a bogus legal strategy. He probably faces a bigger challenge from his client than the courts…

you may be correct here.

[Robert]

Straight from Amos Miller's attorney's mouth. I know this is one side, but it is a good listen. A few harsh words. I tried to start it where they talk Amos Miller, but the link is not working right. Advance to 24 minutes and it starts about 24:39.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Straight from Amos Miller's attorney's mouth. I know this is one side, but it is a good listen. A few harsh words. I tried to start it where they talk Amos Miller, but the link is not working right. Advance to 24 minutes and it starts about 24:39.

Most of what he is saying is irrelevant to the matter. Failing to get a permit for activity that requires a permit is sufficient to land him in the dock. That they found “samples from a farm in Texas “ in his dairy is also problematic, and likely a violation. You are not supposed to ship raw milk interstate, another violation. Why does he have milk from another location on his premises, another violation. He had a listeria positive sample on his premises, that is a smoking gun, there is no threshold where it would not be a problem. Some benign bacteria like coliform would not be a problem.

This lawyer suggests that regulations are only permissible when someone can be proven to be the cause. Regulations exist for prevention, and if one must comply, all must. Does he think that being Amish is an exemption? Just get a permit and comply.

[Josh]

I thought what Barnes said was very credible and well-sourced, in particular, Miller's impeccable food safety rating. It is interesting that nobody has ever become sick from his products. They had to search far and wide to find one example from years ago - and that person turned out to not actually consume any, and her caretaker testified to that fact.

[Ken]

I thought what Barnes said was very credible and well-sourced, in particular, Miller's impeccable food safety rating. It is interesting that nobody has ever become sick from his products. They had to search far and wide to find one example from years ago - and that person turned out to not actually consume any, and her caretaker testified to that fact.

And it is also completely irrelevant and beside the point.

If I am pulled over while driving on the highway without a drivers license, valid car registration, license plate, or required insurance. The fact that I might have a perfect driving record is not going to be a valid defense or get me off the hook.

And neither is "sovereign citizen" nonsense about how such laws don't apply to me. As is illustrated by the many humorous dashcam videos of self-professed "sovereign citizen" types getting pulled over and finding out.

[Josh]

I thought what Barnes said was very credible and well-sourced, in particular, Miller's impeccable food safety rating. It is interesting that nobody has ever become sick from his products. They had to search far and wide to find one example from years ago - and that person turned out to not actually consume any, and her caretaker testified to that fact.

And it is also completely irrelevant and beside the point.

If I am pulled over while driving on the highway without a drivers license, valid car registration, license plate, or required insurance. The fact that I might have a perfect driving record is not going to be a valid defense or get me off the hook.

And neither is "sovereign citizen" nonsense about how such laws don't apply to me. As is illustrated by the many humorous dashcam videos of self-professed "sovereign citizen" types getting pulled over and finding out.

If you had a perfect driving record and never caused an accident, yet everyone around you was crashing and killing people and right, it would be worth questioning if harassing you for having expired plates is really the right use of limited government prosecutorial resources.

[Ken]

I thought what Barnes said was very credible and well-sourced, in particular, Miller's impeccable food safety rating. It is interesting that nobody has ever become sick from his products. They had to search far and wide to find one example from years ago - and that person turned out to not actually consume any, and her caretaker testified to that fact.

And it is also completely irrelevant and beside the point.

If I am pulled over while driving on the highway without a drivers license, valid car registration, license plate, or required insurance. The fact that I might have a perfect driving record is not going to be a valid defense or get me off the hook.

And neither is "sovereign citizen" nonsense about how such laws don't apply to me. As is illustrated by the many humorous dashcam videos of self-professed "sovereign citizen" types getting pulled over and finding out.

If you had a perfect driving record and never caused an accident, yet everyone around you was crashing and killing people and right, it would be worth questioning if harassing you for having expired plates is really the right use of limited government prosecutorial resources.

The point is, that claiming a perfect record isn't a valid defense for refusing to obey the laws that everyone else obeys. And if you disagree with the laws, there is a democratic process to address that.

In any event, which of the other 114 small raw-milk dairies operating legally in Pennsylvania are killing people left and right?

[Josh]

The comparison is to all the OTHER food outbreaks and illnesses happening. Starting with the obesity crisis.

The testimony Miller’s customers gave was that his high quality, organic, pesticide and herbicide and chemical free food was lifesaving for them. They should continue to get that choice instead of being forced to buy industrially produced ultra processed unhealthy food.