College Turmoil

[HondurasKeiser]

If having one's relatives killed by bombs is genocide, then what the Israelis are doing today in Gaza is most certainly genocide. And those who support Israel are complicit in genocide. Do you not agree?

After all, the death toll from 2 months in Gaza vastly exceeds a decade of Intifada by orders of magnitude.

You see how that works?

No, because words actually have meanings. Genocide means something and it is not simply the collateral damages of war, tragic as they may be. Hamas is committed to the genocide of Jews - Israel for all its faults is not committed to the genocide of Palestinians - if they are they're doing an horrific job at it.

Likewise, intifada has a meaning - the first definition google tells me is "uprising and rebellion...specifically an armed uprising". The 1st and 2nd intifadas were hardly mere "struggles". What leads us to believe that a 3rd would suddenly become a mostly peaceful street protest? Would you like to be on the receiving end of such struggles?

As for "From the River to the Sea" - regardless who used the phrase first and how long ago (Likud's usage was in 1977). I think it's widely understood today to be call for the destruction of Israel and for there to be a one-state solution in the form of Palestine. There's nothing non-violent or peaceful about such a call. Hakeem Jeffries agrees: ""widely understood as calling for the complete destruction of Israel". Karine Jean-Pierre said that: "...it is divisive, it is hurtful, many find it hurtful and many find it antisemitic..."

Yes words have meanings. And throughout this entire fiasco with university presidents there haven't been pro-Palestinian protestors on those three campuses calling for the genocide of Jews, nor have there been pro-Jewish protestors calling for the genocide of Palestinians.

What there has been is a lot of heated rhetoric on both sides that fall clearly into notions of free speech. And there are no doubt individuals who have gone too far in their rhetoric. Including one of Congresswoman Stephanik's own Republican colleagues who talked about turning Gaza into a parking lot.

Speech that is hateful and anti-Semitic should be called out. Along with speech that dehumanizes Palestinians. But ant-Semitism isn't tantamount to genocide. It isn't really that complicated.

This isn't a tempest in a teapot and much as you're quick to revert to your "nothing-to-see-here, it's all made up by Republicans" stasis; I think you might want to consider what Jewish students at the Ivies are saying. A quick Google Search leads me to all sorts of coverage on the heightening Anti-Semitism at Penn. If we were Jewish I bet we'd think twice about sending our children there.

https://nypost.com/2023/12/06/news/upen ... on-campus/

https://fortune.com/2023/12/05/penn-sue ... amas-gaza/

https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/ ... /32pvved6q

This is from a year ago:Harvard University ranks first in antisemitism

[HondurasKeiser]

For what it's worth, Bari Weiss has an interesting take on how to deal with antisemitism on campus that involves neither limiting free speech nor firing ineloquent presidents:

The right response to pervasive antisemitism on campus isn’t to assign Jews protected status alongside other minorities—or to limit anti-Jewish speech beyond what current law already prohibits.

The solution to present discrimination isn’t more discrimination. And it is certainly not for the Jews who have been discriminated against inside the current DEI regime to beg for better placement inside its corrupt hierarchy.

I repeat—because it bears repeating—attempts to expand the DEI bureaucracy to encompass Jews are bound to fail because Jewish identity undermines the whole woke progressive framework. Is Judaism a race? If so, what color, since that’s of course very important? Or is it a religion? Or an ethnicity? Or a culture?

Jews are, by their very existence, an affront to this crude ideology.

So the only meaningful response starts with dismantling the DEI regime that has enforced an illiberal (and antisemitic) worldview at nearly every American university. That means stopping the hiring of DEI administrators and reallocating the budgets of DEI offices. It means banning the loyalty oaths professors must pledge to earn a job or tenure. It means dismantling the entire DEI bureaucracy, as some states have started doing.

[Ken]

No, because words actually have meanings. Genocide means something and it is not simply the collateral damages of war, tragic as they may be. Hamas is committed to the genocide of Jews - Israel for all its faults is not committed to the genocide of Palestinians - if they are they're doing an horrific job at it.

Likewise, intifada has a meaning - the first definition google tells me is "uprising and rebellion...specifically an armed uprising". The 1st and 2nd intifadas were hardly mere "struggles". What leads us to believe that a 3rd would suddenly become a mostly peaceful street protest? Would you like to be on the receiving end of such struggles?

As for "From the River to the Sea" - regardless who used the phrase first and how long ago (Likud's usage was in 1977). I think it's widely understood today to be call for the destruction of Israel and for there to be a one-state solution in the form of Palestine. There's nothing non-violent or peaceful about such a call. Hakeem Jeffries agrees: ""widely understood as calling for the complete destruction of Israel". Karine Jean-Pierre said that: "...it is divisive, it is hurtful, many find it hurtful and many find it antisemitic..."

Yes words have meanings. And throughout this entire fiasco with university presidents there haven't been pro-Palestinian protestors on those three campuses calling for the genocide of Jews, nor have there been pro-Jewish protestors calling for the genocide of Palestinians.

What there has been is a lot of heated rhetoric on both sides that fall clearly into notions of free speech. And there are no doubt individuals who have gone too far in their rhetoric. Including one of Congresswoman Stephanik's own Republican colleagues who talked about turning Gaza into a parking lot.

Speech that is hateful and anti-Semitic should be called out. Along with speech that dehumanizes Palestinians. But ant-Semitism isn't tantamount to genocide. It isn't really that complicated.

This isn't a tempest in a teapot and much as you're quick to revert to your "nothing-to-see-here, it's all made up by Republicans" stasis; I think you might want to consider what Jewish students at the Ivies are saying. A quick Google Search leads me to all sorts of coverage on the heightening Anti-Semitism at Penn. If we were Jewish I bet we'd think twice about sending our children there.

https://nypost.com/2023/12/06/news/upen ... on-campus/

https://fortune.com/2023/12/05/penn-sue ... amas-gaza/

https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/ ... /32pvved6q

This is from a year ago:Harvard University ranks first in antisemitism

I am saying nothing of the sort. There is clearly a wave of anti-Semitism occurring on college campuses. It is troubling and it should be dealt with. But context also matters and not every form of opposition to Israel's actions in Gaza is a call for genocide. You know this, Elise Stephanik knows this, FOX News knows this. Likewise, expressing support for Israel's war in Gaza isn't the same as a call for genocide of Palestinians. It could be. Some have taken it that far. But generally speaking it isn't.

Context also matters when it comes to speech. A heated discussion between students in a dorm lounge or late night cafe is different from an official publication by an officially sponsored and funded student organization. And that is different from official speech from a university itself or speech and writings directly sponsored by a university. There is no inherent and universal free speech right on college campuses or anywhere else. But of all places, universities should tilt in the direction of upholding free expression.

[HondurasKeiser]

Yes words have meanings. And throughout this entire fiasco with university presidents there haven't been pro-Palestinian protestors on those three campuses calling for the genocide of Jews, nor have there been pro-Jewish protestors calling for the genocide of Palestinians.

What there has been is a lot of heated rhetoric on both sides that fall clearly into notions of free speech. And there are no doubt individuals who have gone too far in their rhetoric. Including one of Congresswoman Stephanik's own Republican colleagues who talked about turning Gaza into a parking lot.

Speech that is hateful and anti-Semitic should be called out. Along with speech that dehumanizes Palestinians. But ant-Semitism isn't tantamount to genocide. It isn't really that complicated.

This isn't a tempest in a teapot and much as you're quick to revert to your "nothing-to-see-here, it's all made up by Republicans" stasis; I think you might want to consider what Jewish students at the Ivies are saying. A quick Google Search leads me to all sorts of coverage on the heightening Anti-Semitism at Penn. If we were Jewish I bet we'd think twice about sending our children there.

https://nypost.com/2023/12/06/news/upen ... on-campus/

https://fortune.com/2023/12/05/penn-sue ... amas-gaza/

https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/ ... /32pvved6q

This is from a year ago:Harvard University ranks first in antisemitism

I am saying nothing of the sort. There is clearly a wave of anti-Semitism occurring on college campuses. It is troubling and it should be dealt with. But context also matters and not every form of opposition to Israel's actions in Gaza is a call for genocide. You know this, Elise Stephanik knows this, FOX News knows this. Likewise, expressing support for Israel's war in Gaza isn't the same as a call for genocide of Palestinians. It could be. Some have taken it that far. But generally speaking it isn't.

Context also matters when it comes to speech. A heated discussion between students in a dorm lounge or late night cafe is different from an official publication by an officially sponsored and funded student organization. And that is different from official speech from a university itself or speech and writings directly sponsored by a university. There is no inherent and universal free speech right on college campuses or anywhere else. But of all places, universities should tilt in the direction of upholding free expression.

I agree with you that not everything that is said or done related to Israel/Gaza/Hamas is antisemitic or a call for genocide.
The kind of things that we've seen at the Ivies, stuff that for instance turns into mobs protesting a Jewish restaurant in Philly (a video you posted here first) or turns into Jewish students at Cooper Union hiding in a library while Pro-Palestinian protestors bang on the doors and windows - that kind of stuff goes far beyond freedom of speech and enters intimidation and harassment territory. Students have a right to free speech but they also have a right to equal protection and right now many schools are failing on that count and I would imagine are leaving themselves open to serious and open-and-shut lawsuits.

[Ken]

This isn't a tempest in a teapot and much as you're quick to revert to your "nothing-to-see-here, it's all made up by Republicans" stasis; I think you might want to consider what Jewish students at the Ivies are saying. A quick Google Search leads me to all sorts of coverage on the heightening Anti-Semitism at Penn. If we were Jewish I bet we'd think twice about sending our children there.

https://nypost.com/2023/12/06/news/upen ... on-campus/

https://fortune.com/2023/12/05/penn-sue ... amas-gaza/

https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/ ... /32pvved6q

This is from a year ago:Harvard University ranks first in antisemitism

I am saying nothing of the sort. There is clearly a wave of anti-Semitism occurring on college campuses. It is troubling and it should be dealt with. But context also matters and not every form of opposition to Israel's actions in Gaza is a call for genocide. You know this, Elise Stephanik knows this, FOX News knows this. Likewise, expressing support for Israel's war in Gaza isn't the same as a call for genocide of Palestinians. It could be. Some have taken it that far. But generally speaking it isn't.

Context also matters when it comes to speech. A heated discussion between students in a dorm lounge or late night cafe is different from an official publication by an officially sponsored and funded student organization. And that is different from official speech from a university itself or speech and writings directly sponsored by a university. There is no inherent and universal free speech right on college campuses or anywhere else. But of all places, universities should tilt in the direction of upholding free expression.

I agree with you that not everything that is said or done related to Israel/Gaza/Hamas is antisemitic or a call for genocide.
The kind of things that we've seen at the Ivies, stuff that for instance turns into mobs protesting a Jewish restaurant in Philly (a video you posted here first) or turns into Jewish students at Cooper Union hiding in a library while Pro-Palestinian protestors bang on the doors and windows - that kind of stuff goes far beyond freedom of speech and enters intimidation and harassment territory. Students have a right to free speech but they also have a right to equal protection and right now many schools are failing on that count and I would imagine are leaving themselves open to serious and open-and-shut lawsuits.

Also people should understand that most large universities, public and private, more or less operate as public spaces, especially in big cities. There are no gates or walls separating Penn, Harvard, and MIT from the surrounding neighborhoods. And when you have protests in public spaces on universities they tend to bring all kinds of lefties out of the woodwork who are not students. That was most definitely the case at UW in Seattle where I went to grad school. My daughter tells me it is much the same today. And when she walks by the everpresent pro-Palestinian protests on campus every day it is a lot of non-students who have just shown up there because it is, in fact, a public space. There are some universities like USC and Loyola Marymount in Los Angeles that are, indeed, gated campuses with security checks to get on campus. But they are very much the minority. Most are completely open spaces.

And honestly, at a big university like UW there is usually some sort of protest of some sort going on every single day of the year. Someone putting up posters, or with a table in front of the student union. It is just part of the landscape and always has been. Similar to the Lafayette Square in front of the White House. Pretty much every day of the year someone or some group is out there protesting something or other. It is just part of the urban landscape of DC.

[HondurasKeiser]

Would any large university in the country allow students or non-students to utilize their campus (however open it may be) to chant similarly hateful things about black people? What do you think presidents Gay or Magill would say and do if a bunch of local yocals started chanting about black people being guilty of genocide?

[temporal1]

TIMES OF ISRAEL

JEWISH FEDERATIONS CHAIR JULIE PLATT IS INTERIM REPLACEMENT

“UPenn head quits after refusing to say a call for Jewish genocide violates school rules”
Board of trustees head [Scott Bok] says Liz Magill resigning, then announces he’s quitting too, seems to criticize school:
Hope she’s given ‘a second chance, in a more supportive community’
https://www.timesofisrael.com/upenn-hea ... ool-rules/

.. Shortly after the statement was issued, Bok announced that he too was stepping down, effective immediately, while defending Magill and suggesting the school was not sufficiently supportive of her.

“The world should know that Liz Magill is a very good person and a talented leader who was beloved by her team.
She is not the slightest bit antisemitic,” Bok said in a separate statement published by the school paper. “Worn down by months of relentless external attacks, she was not herself last Tuesday. Over prepared and over lawyered given the hostile forum and high stakes, she provided a legalistic answer to a moral question, and that was wrong. It made for a dreadful 30-second sound bite in what was more than five hours of testimony.”

Presidents of huge elite universities are not victims, esp not of that which they created with focused determination.
To repeat, those 3 “presidents” sounded like they’d memorized a single prepared script from an elementary school play, presented with like pride.

The parents in the audience did not applaud.

i wonder how many hundreds of thousands of dollars Ms Magill will snag on her way out?
In my nearby large state university, profs/higher-ups don’t leave without a large goody bag.

[RZehr]

Would any large university in the country allow students or non-students to utilize their campus (however open it may be) to chant similarly hateful things about black people? What do you think presidents Gay or Magill would say and do if a bunch of local yocals started chanting about black people being guilty of genocide?

Uh, no. That is hate speech and is not allowed on campus.

[temporal1]

Would any large university in the country allow students or non-students to utilize their campus (however open it may be) to chant similarly hateful things about black people? What do you think presidents Gay or Magill would say and do if a bunch of local yocals started chanting about black people being guilty of genocide?

Ok. Expose THE RACE INDUSTRY for what it has become. Power. Politics. The Public Treasury. Big business.

Everything changes everything.
Hamas may have thought they were going out to have a little rock+roll.

“Be careful what you ask for?” You might just get it.

[temporal1]

Also, college turmoil on Pages 62-63, Major attack / viewtopic.php?t=6141&start=610
Also, some college turmoil discussion, Pages 17-19, Hegelian Dialectic: viewtopic.php?t=6221&start=180

(i think) “the topic at hand” is focus on big university LEADERS+POLICIES, i.e., unhappy billionaires rethinking donations.
They seem to think students aren’t in control of everything, that not all is “innocent+organic.”

NPR / After a disastrous testimony, three college presidents face calls to resign / 5min

On Wednesday, the presidents of Harvard, MIT and the University of Pennsylvania testified before the House on antisemitism on college campuses. All three are facing calls to resign.

.. That was quick:

CNBC / UPenn President Liz Magill, board chair both resign following backlash over congressional antisemitism testimony
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/09/upenn-p ... mony-.html


This was posted on Page 8:

.. From 2015-2020, campuses that received money from Middle Eastern donors reported an average 300% more antisemitic incidents.

There’s a worthwhile interview on Page 5, viewtopic.php?t=6221&start=40
“Ben Shapiro with James Lindsay / James Lindsay Knows More About This Than Anyone / 57min”
(Indoctrination in Schools)

horseshoes


Falco - thoughts??