The Anabaptist perception towards addiction rehab facilities!

[Sudsy]

I believe God can and will deliver anyone from any habit including drug addiction. I have members in my family that have been delivered/healed from various addictions by the power of God alone.

My one uncle was so addicted to smoking that he, at times, had multiple cigarettes on the go at the same time in various places of his store. This was often referred to as a 'chain smoker'. When God delivered him from smoking, after becoming a Christian, the very next cigarette was a terrible taste and God took away his desire to smoke. One of his biggest sources of income was his cigarette sales but he was convicted to quit selling them. When he did he took much abuse from his customers and even physical abuse. My own father had an addiction to swearing/cursing in most every sentence he spoke. The morning after he was born again he let out one of these curse words and he immediately was convicted and knelt and asked forgiveness. God not only forgave him but gave him the power to not swear again. My mom and older sister were so amazed at what God had also done in his speech. There are many stories of these miraculous 'healings' in our family that I could tell. All sorts of addictions broken by the power of God and healings that confounded the doctors.

I am not against rehab facilities as there are testimonies of how this has helped some people but what seems to be the common trend in many churches today is to first go to medicines and other human deliverance means rather than believing that God still works miraculously to heal and break habits and provide over-coming power to believers.

Imo, when a group of Christians stop following the prayer of faith and the laying on of hands as we read here in James 5:14-16 and start trusting only in other means, they are not reflecting much belief in the power of God. I believe addictions are sicknesses and we are told how a believing church should approach them. When I was younger, this was a very common practise and miracles were anticipated to happen.

Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

In the MB church I attended I only recall hearing of one case where the James 5 process was followed. In my early years in Pentecostalism a small bottle of olive oil was kept handy at church and in homes to follow this process. Don't know today who, if any, still follow the scripture here. Perhaps it has reached a point where the sick person does not ask for this as they don't believe it will do any good or perhaps they feel they are imposing on the elders of the church.

This does not always provide the results as stated and some try to figure out why (i.e. a lack of faith, not according to God's will at that time, etc) however, that doesn't negate obeying the scripture. Another scripture says if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.

Just saying that there is nothing that God cannot do and that includes miraculously healing us from all addictions. I saw it first hand in my own family and in the lives of many others. Even being addicted to arguing with others on a forum.

[Josh]

I have been around numerous laying on of hands and prayers for faith healing for people with addictions who, guess what… remained addicts.

[steve-in-kville]

I have been around numerous laying on of hands and prayers for faith healing for people with addictions who, guess what… remained addicts.

Unfortunately, my observations have been the same.

To that end, I've known people who drank or smoked and one day woke up and thought to themselves, "yeah, I'm done with it."

And that was the end.

[Josh]

I have been around numerous laying on of hands and prayers for faith healing for people with addictions who, guess what… remained addicts.

Unfortunately, my observations have been the same.

To that end, I've known people who drank or smoked and one day woke up and thought to themselves, "yeah, I'm done with it."

And that was the end.

It all depends on if someone chooses to follow God and leans on him for salvation or chooses to keep indulging in a sin, maybe a minor one, or a big one like an addiction.

[flyingnorm]

Well, let's say it happens to someone who is already born again, has made a confession of faith, is a baptised believer, a church member, and so forth. Then what?

Not sure. My point of reference is people who are looking to get into a functional lifestyle and into a relationship with Christ. I don’t know how those who have been told that baptism, church membership, and a few other things are the answer will get born again other than through honest repentance from dead works and actual faith in the living Son of God. The changed lives I mentioned come almost entirely from a church background with a mix of animism.

One more thing. What exactly do you mean when you say “until it doesn’t”. When does Christ not save those who call on Him in faith?

Let me repeat myself: take someone who is someone who is already born again, has made a confession of faith, and is a baptised believer. (Surely you do not think being baptised is "dead works", and I said "confession of faith" and "is already born again", which means they had actual faith in the living Son of God.)

10 or 20 years later, this person has a serious addiction, maybe to drugs, maybe to alcohol, maybe to immorality.

What, exactly, do you propose for this person?

I propose that his heart be engaged to the point of faith. As the scripture says “with the heart man believeth to righteousness”.

Surely there are people who go through the motions of baptism, confession of faith, etc. without believing in their hearts. That is the epitome of dead works. Doing all the right things for all the wrong reasons leaves a person exactly as you described him. Baptized church member for 20 years addicted to sin and powerless to change.

It seems to me the source of motivation matters. The power of the Gospel lies in the cross and the resurrection. The cross strips us of self serving motives and the resurrection empowers us to live.

It is also true that many people are not willing to give up their pet addiction because of the power it gives them over the people around them. As long as the people around the addict are telling them to stop they will keep doing it. Statistically speaking around 20% of society has this antisocial attitude. An addict with these antisocial traits probably will find great satisfaction in staying in church as a problem child, knowing he irritates a lot of people who want him to behave. If he left the church he would lose the negative attention he gets in the church. Just like politicians, negative attention is better than no attention for some addicts.

Repentance from the desire for attention and control go a long way in all our lives. Even for mennonetters

[temporal1]

To that end, I've known people who drank or smoked and one day woke up and thought to themselves, "yeah, I'm done with it."
And that was the end.

This is it. These things happen, but not always by man’s formula.
They aren’t always recognized as the work of God, the Holy Spirit, conversion .. but that doesn’t mean it’s not so.

i’ve seen a number of dramatic surprises in my life, read about more. They can’t be denied, can’t always be understood.
We humans want to control+contain everything.

We can control our prayers.

[Josh]

I propose that his heart be engaged to the point of faith. As the scripture says “with the heart man believeth to righteousness”.

Surely there are people who go through the motions of baptism, confession of faith, etc. without believing in their hearts. That is the epitome of dead works. Doing all the right things for all the wrong reasons leaves a person exactly as you described him. Baptized church member for 20 years addicted to sin and powerless to change.

Except that’s not the scenario I described.

I described someone who was genuinely born again, and then later fell into an addiction.

I have seen this happen many, many times.

[flyingnorm]

I propose that his heart be engaged to the point of faith. As the scripture says “with the heart man believeth to righteousness”.

Surely there are people who go through the motions of baptism, confession of faith, etc. without believing in their hearts. That is the epitome of dead works. Doing all the right things for all the wrong reasons leaves a person exactly as you described him. Baptized church member for 20 years addicted to sin and powerless to change.

Except that’s not the scenario I described.

I described someone who was genuinely born again, and then later fell into an addiction.

I have seen this happen many, many times.

Sadly many fall away from Christ and go to hell. Sorry about that.

[Josh]

Except that’s not the scenario I described.

I described someone who was genuinely born again, and then later fell into an addiction.

I have seen this happen many, many times.

Sadly many fall away from Christ and go to hell. Sorry about that.

I'm very sorry about it, too, but a lot of hurting families and church brethren want to help someone who has fallen into an addiction, particularly when they remember the life in Christ and the Christian joy the now-addict used to have.

[Sudsy]

I believe there is no sickness of any sort that God cannot heal including addictions of any sort which is a type of mind sickness. God did not up and quit doing miraculous healings. Besides unbelief that God will heal, in today's world of expecting immediate results in most things, believers can easily bailout when they do what scripture says to do as in the James text I referred to previously.

Paul had a 'thorn in the flesh' that bugged him. I don't think it matters whether this was a physical thorn (i.e. his eyesight) or was a mental torment he was having from satan to throw him off. But he prayed 3 times to have it taken away by God. After the third time, God told Paul why he was going to have to live with this 'thorn'. And we read where Paul changed his whole attitude toward the problem to see it as a benefit and not a hindrance to him.

So, God is not promising to give us what we think is best for us but rather what He thinks is best. We do not have any 'magic formula' to get what we want Him to do yet we should follow what He says to do and trust Him with it.

I do not believe God will ever give us more than we can bear but will either heal our sicknesses or give us the grace needed to live with them.

If we look closely at the James text there are a number of possible hindrances to healing that come to mind. For instance -
- did the sick person call for the elders if they were able to
- what exactly is the 'prayer of faith' ? (Faith - the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen)
- is it correct to believe this healing will be immediate or to go on believing that God will heal in His timing ?
- whose faith is involved ? the elders ? the sick person ? both ?
- what if one elder has doubts ?
- what if the oil was not used as stated ?

I believe there will be situations that we may never know why God does not heal but I believe in those cases God provides the grace needed for that person to victoriously live with that condition and not sin. It is up to that person then to rely on this grace that God gives and not to give way to the flesh and temptations of satan. I also don't think it wrong to ask God to tell us why He is not healing someone. He may or He may not answer. In Paul's case perhaps it was Paul's close relationship with the Lord that allowed Paul to hear God's reply. I believe the closer we get to God in our communion with Him, the more we will hear His Voice.

Anyway, some of my thoughts.