400 Years of African Slavery in America

[Dan Z]

And slavery existed in Europe and also existed in various meso-American societies, so it seems rather silly to try to pinpoint a date when it was “introduced” to America.

I suspect the date doesn't feel so silly to African Americans who trace their ancestry in this country through the institution of slavery. To them 1619 is apparently an important watermark, because it represents the beginning of their collective story in the United States. For Mennonites it is Germantown PA, 1683 represents that start. For European Americans it was 1492 when "Columbus sailed the ocean blue. For my family it was 1746 when Phillip Ziegler settle in Berks County PA.

[Bootstrap]

And slavery existed in Europe and also existed in various meso-American societies, so it seems rather silly to try to pinpoint a date when it was “introduced” to America.

I suspect the date doesn't feel so silly to African Americans who trace their ancestry in this country through the institution of slavery. To them 1619 is apparently an important watermark, because it represents the beginning of their collective story in the United States. For Mennonites it is Germantown PA, 1683 represents that start. For European Americans it was 1492 when "Columbus sailed the ocean blue. For my family it was 1746 when Phillip Ziegler settle in Berks County PA.

And for some of the people I have talked to, the fact that black people lived in America before the Pilgrims did is also significant. It says they were a part of this very early history.

[Josh]

I don't think it's the date, I think it's the history and the story. We all know the story of the Pilgrims, most of us do not know this story. We tend to know the history of British white people who came to America, I also learned the history of Dutch white people because they were important to the area where I grew up, and I learned the history of the Seneca and other Iroquois who were also important locally, but most of us know very little about the history of African Americans in early America.

It's like they don't count.

Maybe things have changed. I'm 37, and I learned all this stuff in detail in elementary and high school.

I don't think you really understand American history if you don't understand this history too. Slavery also played a big role in the Constitutional Conventions and the formation of the Constitution itself. It was the fault line that eventually led to the Civil War. Slaves built most of the major monuments and mansions that we think about when we think about early American history.

Most of us grew up with a carefully sanitized American history that mostly leaves black people out of everything before Frederick Douglass. Black people are an important part of our shared history. The fact that they were first brought over as slaves is a significant part of this history - for both whites and blacks.

I'm not sure who this "most of us" is. It certainly wasn't the case for me. And most people I know seem very well educated about early American history including the experiences you are talking about.

[Josh]

And slavery existed in Europe and also existed in various meso-American societies, so it seems rather silly to try to pinpoint a date when it was “introduced” to America.

I suspect the date doesn't feel so silly to African Americans who trace their ancestry in this country through the institution of slavery. To them 1619 is apparently an important watermark, because it represents the beginning of their collective story in the United States. For Mennonites it is Germantown PA, 1683 represents that start. For European Americans it was 1492 when "Columbus sailed the ocean blue. For my family it was 1746 when Phillip Ziegler settle in Berks County PA.

"Tracing your ancestry" is something I guess I'll never fully understand; then again, my ancestry is spread across many different continents, and I've never really concerned myself with it much. Neither has anyone else in my family, other than one of my mother's cousins who converted to being a Mormon.

I don't consider 1492 to be some special date for me as an "American". Nor is 1770 something special as an Australian - in fact, I had to go and look it up just now. I couldn't even tell you when my ancestors landed in America.

Perhaps part of the problem is this "collective story" idea. I don't feel like I have a "collective story" with other Americans or Australians just because of some very broad category like race or colour. If one goes far enough into one's ancestry, eventually one will probably find a legacy of slavery. I don't exactly feel like I have some "collective story" with other people whose ancestors were enslaved, though, unless one considers the collective story of all of mankind.

I'll add to this that I find the Mennonite obsession with genealogy quite obnoxious as well. It seems that many people are far more focused on their earthly family than being part of the family of God.

[MaxPC]

And slavery existed in Europe and also existed in various meso-American societies, so it seems rather silly to try to pinpoint a date when it was “introduced” to America.

I suspect the date doesn't feel so silly to African Americans who trace their ancestry in this country through the institution of slavery. To them 1619 is apparently an important watermark, because it represents the beginning of their collective story in the United States. For Mennonites it is Germantown PA, 1683 represents that start. For European Americans it was 1492 when "Columbus sailed the ocean blue. For my family it was 1746 when Phillip Ziegler settle in Berks County PA.

I see Josh as saying that slavery existed in the Americas long before the alleged dates you mentioned. Rather than trying to create an artificial window of time, it’s much more sound for an accurate historical perspective, to examine events within a larger timeline of human history. Don’t forget as well that there were African Americans who bought and sold African slaves. They would also capture Native Americans for slavery and breeding stock.

I wonder how useful it is to spend hours debating something that is past history that cannot be changed: instead of using those same hours to bring the leaven of the Gospel to people in our own immediate circles as Christ called us to do. If we pay attention to and tend to those around us, I daresay there would be fewer sexual predators victimizing the innocent. Sex trafficking is another form of slavery: one that we can work towards abolishing in the here and now.

[Josh]

Sex trafficking is another form of slavery: one that we can work towards abolishing in the here and now.

What are the dehumanizing causes of the day that we Anabaptists should be morally attuned to?

Human trafficking in the present day certainly seems like something we should be morally attuned to. Here's a map from CIFF that shows where the problems are the biggest:



Interestingly, some progressive Anabaptists seem to be pretty focused on opposing efforts of the various governments like the United States to do anything about human trafficking, such as securing borders and having proper law enforcement screening in who is coming across borders, and taking care of deporting human traffickers and others involved in organised crime who make it across the border.

I would compare their political stance to those people who preferred to keep the status quo when America had chattels slavery. Often the reasons given for why there should be unlimited immigration are "economic concerns", and then cite how lots and lots of immigration means a bigger economy, more restaurant choices, and so on.

China and India are, according to the best data and experts in the field of modern day slavery, the worst offenders. It would seem that combating modern day slavery means taking a sharp stance against these countries and avoiding their slavery problem getting a foothold in America. Yet mysteriously, many progressives are extremely opposed to America's President's measures to avoid Chinese and Indian dominance in American industry & labour.

[Bootstrap]

African slavery in America is about African slavery in America. Do you have a problem with a thread on this topic?

If not, perhaps we can continue discussing this topic? You could start new threads on other themes if you like.

[Dan Z]

Sex trafficking is another form of slavery: one that we can work towards abolishing in the here and now.

What are the dehumanizing causes of the day that we Anabaptists should be morally attuned to?

Human trafficking in the present day certainly seems like something we should be morally attuned to. Here's a map from CIFF that shows where the problems are the biggest:

I agree with both of you - this is a major world issue and a sourse of tremendous suffering in the world. Something all Christians should join hands to fight.

Interestingly, some progressive Anabaptists seem to be pretty focused on opposing efforts of the various governments like the United States to do anything about human trafficking, such as securing borders and having proper law enforcement screening in who is coming across borders, and taking care of deporting human traffickers and others involved in organised crime who make it across the border.

I would compare their political stance to those people who preferred to keep the status quo when America had chattels slavery. Often the reasons given for why there should be unlimited immigration are "economic concerns", and then cite how lots and lots of immigration means a bigger economy, more restaurant choices, and so on.

China and India are, according to the best data and experts in the field of modern day slavery, the worst offenders. It would seem that combating modern day slavery means taking a sharp stance against these countries and avoiding their slavery problem getting a foothold in America. Yet mysteriously, many progressives are extremely opposed to America's President's measures to avoid Chinese and Indian dominance in American industry & labour.

I don't know any progressives who are "focused on opposing efforts of the various governments like the US to do anything about human trafficking." Frankly that seems like an unfair partisan accusation. Nor do I think Trump's immigration and trade stance is primarily aimed at curbing human trafficking for that matter.

What I think you can say is that in opposing the rule of law and stricter immigration controls, progressives are inadvertently making it easier for traffickers to move people across the boarder. I'm less clear how Trump's trade policies against China and India fight human trafficking.

[Josh]

What I think you can say is that in opposing the rule of law and stricter immigration controls, progressives are inadvertently making it easier for traffickers to move people across the boarder. I'm less clear how Trump's trade policies against China and India fight human trafficking.

China and India have the most slavery of anyone in the world (and it's growing). It follows to reason that a stronger China = more slavery.

Of course, I'm not sure Christians should get involved in this. But to draw a comparison, the North was economically stronger than the South, and that's why they won the civil war. If the North had been weaker and allowed the South to become strong, they probably would have lost the civil war. And slavery would have gone on a lot longer in America.

[Josh]

African slavery in America is about African slavery in America. Do you have a problem with a thread on this topic?

If not, perhaps we can continue discussing this topic? You could start new threads on other themes if you like.

Well, Dan Z asked what we should be doing today and what we might be missing. The obvious answer would be "Slavery is still a pretty big problem", and America has deep trade links with China and India which promote and exploit slavery in those places.