Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Josh]

No, it is a good thing. Even better if Russia follows through by packing up and going back to Russia. And finally decides to start living up to the agreements that they have already signed.

The don't even need to negotiate anything to do that.

Part of how negotiations and a ceasefire works is that one side does not get everything they want whilst the other side gets nothing they wanted.

[Soloist]

No, it is a good thing. Even better if Russia follows through by packing up and going back to Russia. And finally decides to start living up to the agreements that they have already signed.

The don't even need to negotiate anything to do that.

Part of how negotiations and a ceasefire works is that one side does not get everything they want whilst the other side gets nothing they wanted.

And this is why WW1 laid the seeds of WW2 and the Cold War and this continued skirmish over land traded back and forth between empires.

[Szdfan]

As long as both sides believe they can outlast each other and win, there isn't going to be a negotiated ceasefire.

[temporal1]

It has been reported that Xi Jinping is going to Russia, and apparently is also meeting with Zelensky. Does this indicate he's trying to broker peace?

“Cease fire” are unexpected+welcome words.
Esp following months of msm fear-mongering about potential China-Russia alliances, and balloons.

Time for prayers for resolution, if not peace.

The most resistant will likely be those signing off on billions to Ukraine to advance war. How to get them to back away?

Hopefully, Xi Jinping is not going to Russia (like biden just did) with wagonloads more cash for war.

Time for prayers.

[Josh]

As long as both sides believe they can outlast each other and win, there isn't going to be a negotiated ceasefire.

Let’s hope China can talk some sense into both sides, then.

[Ken]

No, it is a good thing. Even better if Russia follows through by packing up and going back to Russia. And finally decides to start living up to the agreements that they have already signed.

The don't even need to negotiate anything to do that.

Part of how negotiations and a ceasefire works is that one side does not get everything they want whilst the other side gets nothing they wanted.

Wars aren't always about territory. In fact they usually aren't about territorial conquest. For example: The US involvement in WW1 and WW2, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the first Gulf War, the Iraq War, and the Afghanistan War. In none of those wars was territorial conquest the objective of the United States. And in none of those wars did the US conquer and annex territory. They were about political objectives.

In fact it is very clearly in both Russia's interest and China's interest for a political settlement to involve the complete Russian withdrawal from Ukraine.

The obvious quid pro quo to a peace deal would not be territorial concessions on the part of Ukraine, but rather political and economic concessions. On the political side that the NATO and Ukraine agree that Ukraine doesn't join NATO. On the economic side, that economic sanctions against Russia and that limited reparations are imposed on Russia for the damage that they have done.

That is the obvious negotiated end-point to the war. And in the long term it would be the end-point that would most benefit both Russia and China.

[temporal1]

Let’s hope China can talk some sense into both sides, then.

^^it’s tempting to think this is between Ukraine+Russia, isn’t it?

Josh:
Part of how negotiations and a ceasefire works is that one side does not get everything they want whilst the other side gets nothing they wanted.

^^no reference to territory.

[temporal1]

i don’t believe Ukraine’s surrogate mother (industry?) has been mentioned.
i’ve read some about it in the last year. the war has affected it, sometimes leaving babies in political limbo.

Before the 2022 invasion, the pandemic caused problems for these babies, the surrogates, the paying (families?)

2010 / Women Head East for Wombs to Rent
Banned from paying someone to carry a child for them at home, infertile women travel as far as Ukraine in search of surrogate mothers.
https://balkaninsight.com/2010/10/26/wo ... s-to-rent/

undated / Womb to rent – the harsh realities of surrogacy (biotex)
https://biotexcom.com/womb-to-rent-the- ... surrogacy/

2018 / Ukraine’s ‘baby factories’: The human cost of surrogacy (biotex)
After India, Nepal and Thailand banned surrogacy, Ukraine soaks up demand. But women on both sides report exploitation.
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2018 ... -surrogacy



2018 / In search of surrogates, foreign couples descend on Ukraine
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42845602

2020 / Surrogate motherhood and exploitation in Ukraine
https://www.balcanicaucaso.org/eng/Area ... ine-203929


2022 / Wombs for rent and the war in Ukraine
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/do ... 15_EN.html

2022 / Ukrainian Women in Womb Rental Industry Facing Unique Challenges after Russian Invasion
Some women were left behind when the babies they gestated were taken abroad, others have been asked to travel with a newborn to another country.
https://4w.pub/ukrainian-womb-rental-war/

2022 / Poverty In Ukraine Makes Uterine Rental Business Legal, Issues Exploitation Of Women Set Aside
https://voi.id/en/bernas/149880

2022 / For foreign babies carried by Ukrainian surrogates, nowhere is safe
The Russian invasion has placed mothers and babies at risk in Ukraine’s booming surrogacy industry
https://wng.org/roundups/wombs-for-rent ... 1646499722

There’s more.
Worldwide, with or without war, there’s lots more.

[temporal1]

Cease fire is the starting place.
If the $100 billion elephant in the room allows it.

AP / Zelenskyy supports China's new stance on Ukraine / 1min

Description:
(24 Feb 2023) China called for a cease-fire and peace talks between Ukraine and Russia on Friday, and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy cautiously welcomed Beijing’s involvement -- but said success would depend on actions not words. (Feb. 24)

Found in Comments:

Superjj18 WROTE:
“Build your enemies a golden bridge to retreat across” -Sun Tzu

[Josh]

Zelenskyyyy probably knows better than to speak anything against China. There may be an actual chance for peace to happen here.