Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

[Valerie]

Greeks have definitely become more liberal like dome Mennonites

... okay, but the Eastern Orthodox say there is only ONE true church, and it's Eastern Orthodoxy. They don't make any distinction of whether it's Greek, or Russian, or something else. But I'd be glad to get you some pictures from my local Antiochian Orthodox Church (which isn't Greek), right up the road in Hartville:



Can you explain the religious headgear he's wearing?

Meanwhile, female parishioners certainly don't practice headcovering.

The first Orthodox Church we went to EVERY woman covered her head. It was Russian. And none wore pants. In fact they had a kind sign by the entry door of the church asking women to cover their heads and abstain from wearing pants.
Also we stood for the whole 2 plus hour service, men on one side, women the other. No coverings on any mans head at all.

[JayP]

I am completely perplexed by the fixation on the Orthodox. Both Orthodox and RCC clergy wear headgear for various reasons for various practices but NEVER saying mass. The ceremonial removing of such head gear at proscribed “timing” is part of the liturgy.

Now, you are quite free to criticize their implementation of covering and not covering of men and women.
I can hardly deny that either group has let go on a variety of traditional practices.

There are plenty of other , better argued, places where the Catholic Churches don’t measure up for Anabaptists. So be it.
And everyday various individual anabaptists bemoan their group being too legalistic.

Not sure where this gets us.

[ohio jones]

Meanwhile, the Eastern Orthodox seem to practice the exact opposite of the scriptural teaching for men to have uncovered heads:

Looks to me like an uncovered head.

Of cauliflower or something.

[Soloist]

I am completely perplexed by the fixation on the Orthodox. Both Orthodox and RCC clergy wear headgear for various reasons for various practices but NEVER saying mass. The ceremonial removing of such head gear at proscribed “timing” is part of the liturgy.

Now, you are quite free to criticize their implementation of covering and not covering of men and women.
I can hardly deny that either group has let go on a variety of traditional practices.

There are plenty of other , better argued, places where the Catholic Churches don’t measure up for Anabaptists. So be it.
And everyday various individual anabaptists bemoan their group being too legalistic.

Not sure where this gets us.

I don’t think most of us would actually even discuss it if the Orthodox and Catholic are constantly being brought up as a more authentic Christianity.
I think a better spot is obviously how the Orthodox are busy killing each other and claiming God is on their side.
The Scripture though isn’t very specific as to covering being just limited to religious activities or not. It’s clear it applies to prayer and prophecy but what exactly the later is… well that is debated.
I personally do not cover my head with anything except if I’m planning to be under the sun for a lengthy time. My wife covers all the time except the obvious exclusions. I don’t personally feel it’s a Scriptural command to cover always, but if you do, I think it’s important to be equally applied.
The Orthodox and Catholic to my knowledge do not witness like any evangelical do, I know they take part in debates and have women ministries or free food, but they don’t stand at the corner holding signs or spend their efforts copying the Baptist’s methods. Now it’s debated to what extent they reach non-Heritage people and Catholic Churches are obviously closing down but I haven’t heard of Orthodox churches closing.
At one point both of these groups represented a state church and have steadily lost influence in the world since the reformation. Briefly the Lutherans and the reformed held the same basic position but they have the same basic lot.
The Anabaptists started the majority of their growth by people disillusioned by these groups early on but after acceptance of their beliefs and practices became common, wealth and greed became the pitfall and their witness was tarnished. This is why the faithful left Russia and basically those who stayed stopped being anabaptist. You can see the same basic problem in Germany as well with the true Christians leaving or being persecuted.
Now we are in a time of wealth again and society has dramatically changed more so in the last 60 years since perhaps the invention of the printing press.
Mennonites have never been known for making quick changes and that is a double edged sword.
My conclusion though is that it the growth in these groups is either very transient such as seen for personal gain or people looking for an experience. Basically any traditional church is losing out the culture war and having difficulty recruiting new unreached people.
Let’s be realistic here, the only untouched people looking for God are those who are suffering in some way. Too many people are trapped in the infotainment cycle.

[mrbilliam]

Can you please explain the religious headgear that one of the most important leaders in all of Eastern Orthodoxy is wearing, then?

Why do Anabaptist women, for the most part, not cover their heads with exception of Amish? Does a little doily count or a hair ornament over a bun or black shell type thing a head covering?

First off, Amish are the majority of plain Anabaptists, in terms of numbers, so I'm glad you acknowledge their practice.

In my own denomination, women wear scarves like babushkas to church on Sunday which cover most of the head. We aren't Muslims who think we need to wear full face veils or burqas or hijabs, though. I think it is good to focus on the spirit of the law, and not the letter.

Conservative Mennonites who are drifiting towards the world's ways often wear smaller and smaller headcoverings until they wear none at all. I don't think this is good. But, for reference, I'm not really sure I'd say EO practice "covers the whole head" either, to use an example from a recent wedding at my local Greek Orthodox church:



That certainly isn't "covering the whole head" (the wedding service was a worship service, in case anyone is wondering), although my purpose of saying this is not to criticise the happy bride. Or the woman behind her. I am simply saying that is it not the norm for women to be wearing head coverings that cover the whole head, or even some of it, or even a covering at all in the Eastern Orthodox churches around here.

Josh, you are naive to the Orthodox. Before you criticize them further, you should learn more about them.

The men and women who are married in the Orthodox church ceremonially are adorned with the "crown of martyrs". This symbolizes the sacrificing of ones own self driven life, and the beginning of a new life together. The priest adorns them, and they don't adorn themselves.

They literally do this one single time during the sacrament of Holy Matrimony. It's not a lifestyle, it's a marriage symbol.

[mrbilliam]

Meanwhile, the Eastern Orthodox seem to practice the exact opposite of the scriptural teaching for men to have uncovered heads:

Looks to me like an uncovered head.

Of cauliflower or something.

The Orthodox either are defying scriptures directly OR they have more maturity on the teachings of 1 Cornithians 11 than condemning rogue accusers armed with the Bible that the Orthodox church canonized in the first place.

The EO faith is deep. They read the Bible all the time. They are VERY aware of 1 Corinthians 11.

[Soloist]

The Orthodox either are defying scriptures directly OR they have more maturity on the teachings of 1 Cornithians 11 than condemning rogue accusers armed with the Bible that the Orthodox church canonized in the first place.

The EO faith is deep. They read the Bible all the time. They are VERY aware of 1 Corinthians 11.

Sounds like you have found a home? Or are you another advocate of the Orthodox while not willing to actually join?

[mrbilliam]

The Orthodox either are defying scriptures directly OR they have more maturity on the teachings of 1 Cornithians 11 than condemning rogue accusers armed with the Bible that the Orthodox church canonized in the first place.

The EO faith is deep. They read the Bible all the time. They are VERY aware of 1 Corinthians 11.

Sounds like you have found a home? Or are you another advocate of the Orthodox while not willing to actually join?

No, I just don't like blatant denial of history and false accusations. It has no place in the Christian faith.

[Soloist]

No, I just don't like blatant denial of history and false accusations. It has no place in the Christian faith.

Haven’t seen it. Let me know when you find some and can back it up with Scripture.

[ohio jones]

The Orthodox either are defying scriptures directly OR they have more maturity on the teachings of 1 Cornithians 11 than condemning rogue accusers armed with the Bible that the Orthodox church canonized in the first place.

Sort of like how the Westminster Confession has more maturity on the teachings of Matthew 5, and endorses direct defiance of scripture on the matter of swearing.