Bunny Trails

[ken_sylvania]

One other observation I would make regarding how a community supports the pursuit of excellence in art or music vs how they support pursuit of excellence in business is that, in general, our plain communities don't put themselves out too much in supporting "new and improved" ideas of business if those new and improved ideas can't support themselves. If somebody wants to sell grape-flavored milk as a business proposition, they're welcome to do so... some of us will think they are a bit cuckoo but if they can sustain themselves that way we won't care. But if they think that the rest of us have some kind of an obligation to buy their grape-flavored milk, or if they think we ought to give them a grant or a loan to develop additional flavors of milk, I for one would give the same answer I would give an artist who is complaining that people aren't willing to pay enough for their art to let them make a living at it. I would say I do things I don't especially enjoy because they need to be don, and it won't hurt them to do the same.

Of course, part of marketing is convincing people that they need the product being offered. I guess that's what the artsy people here are trying to do - convince people that art is valuable....

[ken_sylvania]

None of that justifies killing babies and participating in abortion.

Demanding that people homeschool who don't want to inject their children with aborted-baby parts is not reasonable.

Well, many states in America either have very strict limits on abortion, like Texas, or reasonable limits on it, like Ohio (22 weeks).

So 22 weeks is a reasonable limit for killing babies, is it? Is there also a reasonable age limit for murder?

[JohnH]

None of that justifies killing babies and participating in abortion.

Demanding that people homeschool who don't want to inject their children with aborted-baby parts is not reasonable.

Well, many states in America either have very strict limits on abortion, like Texas, or reasonable limits on it, like Ohio (22 weeks).

So 22 weeks is a reasonable limit for killing babies, is it? Is there also a reasonable age limit for murder?

Perhaps you could quote what I was responding to:

As I understand it much of Europe, which has long bet excoriated by the religious Right in this country as secular and liberal, has limits on abortion around 20 weeks. Somehow the US at the extremes.

Barnhart lauded Europe for having “limits … around 20 weeks”, and then castigated the U.S. for “extremes”.

Yet 22 American states set a limit at 18 - 24 weeks, that is, “reasonable” to European tastes apparently. (I personally am one of those “extremists” who think it’s never OK to kill a baby on purpose and that those who do should be treated like murderers.)

[ohio jones]

It is only the most extreme, liberal-progressive states that allow it right up to birth:

Alaska, Colorado, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, Vermont, Washington, D.C.

We see notorious "blue states" in that list, plus two more states known for a general libertarian bent (Alaska and NH).

Do we see NH in that list?

[JohnH]

It is only the most extreme, liberal-progressive states that allow it right up to birth:

Alaska, Colorado, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, Vermont, Washington, D.C.

We see notorious "blue states" in that list, plus two more states known for a general libertarian bent (Alaska and NH).

Do we see NH in that list?

Apparently I saw one between the lines. NH prohibits generally after 24 weeks.

[barnhart]

Greenland is forging closer ties with the EU which is promising increased funding. If the president's goal was to acquire Greenland as a US territory, I think that is further away than ever.

[JohnH]

I'm not sure I would label AP as "liberal". I think they at times can tend to lean towards apologetical stances that are pointedly against the "right". But this may be justified since perhaps the majority of Anabaptist might be more influenced by "right-winged" politics due to some commonalities in what the Republican party preaches morally (even if they don't practice what they preach).

I would note that excessive interest and confidence in right wing style politics is really just another expression of liberalism and transition to being more worldly.

However, some groups seem to give an inordinate emphasis against that yet are seemingly quiet about the problem of attraction to left wing politics (which is the same problem as attraction to right wing politics, except it’s expressly more evil; I need cite nothing more than the left wing’s obsession with legal abortion on demand).

However, there have been times where I feel like I would appreciate some teaching against "Left-winged" influence on the Anabaptist...such as "social justice gospel" or warnings against a "Communistic-type" teaching which could equally influence the Anabaptist negatively. Recently I've been encouraged to hear they have been doing a more balanced approach...but previously it seemed like we were getting a steady diet of warnings against "Capitalism=materialism" worked into some of the episodes, or warnings against right winged "Christian Nationalism" agendas...which should also be taught against, of course. I just prefer a more balanced approach.

That’s a good summary of my own position.

I will admit...I haven't listened to much AP for awhile though...so I'm not a good judge. Its just that I have yet to see an episode ominously titled "CHRISTIAN SOCIALISM" or "CHRISTIAN LIBERALISM" where it was clearly targeted with a warning against Left-wing political influence. But maybe they are taking it for granted that most Anabaptist would be more powerfully influenced by the Republican platform...

If they would do this, they’d earn a lot of credibility. The absence of this is notable.

Deep down, I think many are indeed closeted liberals and really don’t see much of a problem with liberal progressivism; the same disease that those who have embraced right wing politics harbour. (Sometimes you’ll see them step out of the closet, such as attending left wing protest rallies in Richmond or Boston.)

[Ernie]

Deep down, I think many are indeed closeted liberals and really don’t see much of a problem with liberal progressivism; the same disease that those who have embraced right wing politics harbour. (Sometimes you’ll see them step out of the closet, such as attending left wing protest rallies in Richmond or Boston.)

AP staff have attended protest rallies?

[Judas Maccabeus]

Deep down, I think many are indeed closeted liberals and really don’t see much of a problem with liberal progressivism; the same disease that those who have embraced right wing politics harbour. (Sometimes you’ll see them step out of the closet, such as attending left wing protest rallies in Richmond or Boston.)

AP staff have attended protest rallies?

Yes, Ernie, this is a reckless mischaracterization. I know the home church that many of them attend well, and about half of it's ministery. It is based in Athens, TN, and I would be totally shocked if ANY of them were involved in such activities in "Richmond or Boston." I could make some calls, but I really do not have to.

I suspect that John H. is conflating Wellspring, a solid moderate conservative Mennonite church, with the "Boston" people.

I know the people of Wellspring, and that simply does not fit.

[JohnH]

Deep down, I think many are indeed closeted liberals and really don’t see much of a problem with liberal progressivism; the same disease that those who have embraced right wing politics harbour. (Sometimes you’ll see them step out of the closet, such as attending left wing protest rallies in Richmond or Boston.)

AP staff have attended protest rallies?

I was referring to Anabaptists as a whole, particularly the ones more sympathetic to the left wing. (We know those sympathetic to the right have sometimes also attended political rallies that do not befit the Christian.)