Charlie Kirk Shot

[Southerner]

(i wish) Erika Kirk would have Amish elders to protect and guide her (for the next 3 years).

At first I thought your idea was haywire, however, after just listening to Erika's eulogy, I feel sad for many reasons that are too ungracious to mention. Did you listen to the whole thing, Temporal? Anyway, upon further reflection I think that she would benefit from meeting some Amish elders, they call them "bishops". Cuz do you remember the central theme of the Nickel Mines massacre?

What are you thinking of about that awful day at Nickel Mines?

What moved the world about the Amish response to the massacre? I remember at the time one of my customers told me that they couldn't ever do that.

[Robert]

One possibility might be to focus on the event itself — to grieve and lament, to name our shared fears that it is no longer as safe to express differing opinions as it once was, and to recognize how a culture of fear seems to be forming.

Thus the name of the thread.

If you want to talk about Charlie Kirk theology, then start a thread in General Theology and discuss it there.

[temporal1]

And here, "anything negative" seems to include the mission statement of the organization that sponsored the campus tour.

That would need to be done in the Politics section since it was an organization that dealt with politics.

I want to be clear that I really agree it is good to keep partisan politics in the Politics forum — I don’t plan to join that forum.

The difficulty is that with Kirk, the lines aren’t very clear. The event itself was mostly political, and Kirk himself is highly political in tone and content. His theology is closely tied to political activism, and he is sharply critical of Christians who don’t join him in the culture wars — especially pastors.

That leaves me wondering: how do we discuss Kirk’s religion at all without misrepresenting it?

One possibility might be to focus on the event itself — to grieve and lament, to name our shared fears that it is no longer as safe to express differing opinions as it once was, and to recognize how a culture of fear seems to be forming.

Robert is doing a great job of guiding this topic. This post is most helpful:
P.7:

How do you interpret that?

What was the context in which that quote was given?

Context is quite important. I would have no idea. I never heard him say that.

I never said I fully agree with him on everything. I do not.
I enjoyed the dialogue he spurred on college campuses. I think he did well at having respectful conversations. I have never seen him attack anyone. He would present his ideas and explain why he thought they were right, then respectfully listen to the other's viewpoint, then respond, again, respectfully. I saw him call down the crowd multiple times and tell them to let the person speak.

Clipping one sentence of a 10 minute conversation is not always fair or respectful.

i’m not sure anyone posting in this topic agrees with everything CK purported, possibly strong disagreement in some areas.
Robert is demonstrating how to be civil even when not in total agreement. A good thing.

[temporal1]

At first I thought your idea was haywire, however, after just listening to Erika's eulogy, I feel sad for many reasons that are too ungracious to mention. Did you listen to the whole thing, Temporal? Anyway, upon further reflection I think that she would benefit from meeting some Amish elders, they call them "bishops". Cuz do you remember the central theme of the Nickel Mines massacre?

What are you thinking of about that awful day at Nickel Mines?

What moved the world about the Amish response to the massacre? I remember at the time one of my customers told me that they couldn't ever do that.

i can’t speak for the world, i believe there was shock and horror, grief, love, empathy, maybe anger. Disbelief. Confusion. Interest. Caring. Wanting to help.

When i learned about the bishops’ response, i was impressed and wished for an Amish man to be president. i didn’t realize the impossbility of it. i just longed for a protector of souls, protection from exploitation of media circus. sanity.

When i registered on MD, the impossibility of an Amish president was explained to me.
Along with a lot more.

i’d read the Bible, i believed what it said. i believed this was a demonstration of faith according to scriptures.
i agonized for the parents and loved ones. i imagined the most awful struggles they would have. of every emotion, every description. including anger and rage. maybe test of faith. human grief.

there are so many steps and stages to loss. and faith. it takes time. serious time.

i’d like to see the sacred cow of cameras+mics racing to get “the first airtime” of the newly bereaved put to rest.
recently in Minneapolis, a young Catholic boy was on camera speaking into a mic like a small adult about the school shooting he’d just survived. They have no shame.

On top of all above, children are not small adults. Protect them.

My views.

[temporal1]

Sometimes pastors tell you what you don’t want to hear.

Once i was having a hard problem, i talked with my fav pastor about it.
i was glad we were on the phone, ‘cause i didn’t want him to see my reaction.
He said little other than to remind me Moses wandered in the desert for 40 years.
i was dismayed. He left me to my misery.

40 years! i did NOT want to struggle for 40 years! i knew that for sure.
Alternative? Submit.

Moses' struggle with God lasted for 40 years, during which he was in the desert, living as a nomad and an outsider among foreigners. This period was marked by Moses' learning through God's silence, which helped him to shake off his own perceptions and beliefs about God and to rediscover faith in its true form. During these years, Moses learned that intimacy with God does not necessarily come from "hearing" God's voice, but from daily walking with Him. When God finally spoke to Moses audibly at 80 years of age, Moses recognized God's voice because he had learned to listen to God in the silence.

[temporal1]

I have sharp critiques of some Mr. Kirk's theology, philosophy and methodology however this doesn't seem to me to be the time for such things. If someone wants to resurface this thread in a year or maybe six months, that would be different.

For now I will say he seemed to be a man of action who liked to engage in conversation with people who disliked him. In those ways I would like to be more like him.

this probably speaks for many.

[temporal1]

P.12:

The suspected shooter, a Tyler Robinson, is in custody.

He was apparently turned in by his father, who recognized him from the photos released by law enforcement.

As scriptures inform, being a parent can mean excruciating pain.
Praise God his father and pastor friend, found the strength to face brutal reality. They saved Tyler’s life.
Nothing will be easy. Tyler has an opportunity to repent and seek salvation.

Most definitely - this is a far better outcome for Tyler than what could have been. He will have the opportunity to defend himself and have the benefit of a trial, something he did not give Kirk. He will also have the opportunity to face the intense suffering and pain that he caused, and confront the evil within himself. For some reason God has given him mercy, and I hope he understands that and takes advantage of that.

jillshabsove WROTE:
Imagine being this father.

You raise your boy with discipline and love. You take him to church. You teach him right from wrong. You serve your country, your community, your family. You model integrity and faith. You pray for him every night.
You do everything a “good parent” is supposed to do.

And still - college, one year of professors dripping poison into his ears, was enough to twist his brilliant, full-scholarship son into a stranger. He fell into Antifa chats. He wore Communist shirts. He shouted at the dinner table that Charlie Kirk was a “fascist.” And then one day, he engraved those words on bullets.

And when the moment came - when his son confessed — this father, a man of law and faith, drove his own child to the police. Knowing the president and governor were calling for the death penalty. Knowing the family name would be destroyed. Knowing his boy’s life was over.

He still did it. Because he believed in doing the right thing, even when it shattered him.

That’s parenting. It’s loving your kids so fiercely it hurts — and still knowing they are never fully yours. They make choices you can’t undo. They walk paths you can’t follow. And sometimes, heartbreakingly, they become someone you don’t recognize.

Every parent feels this in their bones: you
pour everything into your child, and still the world whispers into their ears. Professors, screens, peers-voices louder than yours. And you pray, every night, that the love you gave is strong enough to hold.

My heart breaks for this father. He did everything right. And yet, one year of propaganda cost him his son.

Parenting is hard. You never know what happens. You do your best, you pray, you love-and sometimes that still isn’t enough.

God help us.

[Szdfan]

I want to be clear that I really agree it is good to keep partisan politics in the Politics forum — I don’t plan to join that forum.

The difficulty is that with Kirk, the lines aren’t very clear. The event itself was mostly political, and Kirk himself is highly political in tone and content. His theology is closely tied to political activism, and he is sharply critical of Christians who don’t join him in the culture wars — especially pastors.

That leaves me wondering: how do we discuss Kirk’s religion at all without misrepresenting it?

One possibility might be to focus on the event itself — to grieve and lament, to name our shared fears that it is no longer as safe to express differing opinions as it once was, and to recognize how a culture of fear seems to be forming.

I live in a deeply conservative area. It worries me when I see people I know make apocalyptic and inflammatory threats of violence towards liberals on social media. I don't have any credible threats that I'm actually in danger, but I know that there are people in my area who believe the same kinds of things and so there is at least concern in the back of my mind. Some things being said online are really scary.

Have seen nothing like that at all. All I’ve heard from conservatives is to love- and continue what Charlie started. I think line Grace pointed out the glaring difference between Gloyds death & reactions, and Charlie’s.

With all due respect, I can post many examples of retributive, apocalyptic, and violent rhetoric from conservatives in response to Kirk’s assassination. Some of it has even come from people I’ve interacted with before. But I’d rather not pollute this space with that toxicity.

[Grace]

Have seen nothing like that at all. All I’ve heard from conservatives is to love- and continue what Charlie started. I think line Grace pointed out the glaring difference between Gloyds death & reactions, and Charlie’s.

Thanks Valerie. Both George Floyd and Charlie Kirk did not deserve to die. Both men had children, Floyd has a young daughter, and the Kirks have two little children, which someday will have to face the hard truth on how their dads died. And I find that extremely sad for the innocent children.

My point in the prior post was to point out the differences in the responses to the deaths of these two men, which reflect a big difference.

[Robert]

With all due respect, I can post many examples of retributive, apocalyptic, and violent rhetoric from conservatives in response to Kirk’s assassination. Some of it has even come from people I’ve interacted with before. But I’d rather not pollute this space with that toxicity.

I am very concerned about this. I would like to revisit it in the near future in the proper places and time. Would you be willing to present some of that next week in the Politics section? I think this weekend will be a very challenging time for some on both sides.