Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

[mrbilliam]

Ken,

Did you grow up in a large, global city?

People who live in global cities in America think nothing of driving an hour to something they want. It is entirely normal. If someone is seeking Anabaptism, driving an hour will not an impediment and it is silly to claim otherwise.

If you grew up in an isolated, rural community where you were used to church being just down the road and doing everything in “town” a few miles away, I can understand your perspective.

I posted a rather long list of cities with plain churches in them, including quite a few inside the city limits proper and all within the metro area.

Edit: forgot to add Pittsburgh to the list. Beachy church inside metro area, my own congregation is roughly 1 hr from PIT airport and there are several churches in the Columbiana area that are closer than that.

The idea Mennonites are a “failure” for not having churches in every city street corner is ridiculous. Most such churches are boarded up and closed now anyway. I don’t think Mennonites need to build big suburban churches with huge parking lots and try to get crowds of thousands either.

I hate saying this to you Josh but you are just plain flat wrong. Yes I have all the experience you want of a city. Yes people do mind driving an hour away. Gas isn't free, traffic is irritating, and Amazon.com is thriving because people like deliveries because they don't like getting out.

Yes it does matter if there is 1 single Beachy church in Pittsburgh. I'm glad it's there. But we failed.

There is 1 Satanic church in Pittsburgh too. It doesn't have any impact for the most part.

But please see this link. These are Baptist churches in 1 single zoomed in area of Pittsburgh!
https://maps.app.goo.gl/9g1VpLzRm4XDHQnc6

We face a hard reality. We have failed Jesus. We need to repent and do better.

[mrbilliam]

Ernie, I agree the laborers are few. That said, Biblically the laborers were few too and Christianity spread.

I and others are saying that the reason there are few laborers is because few desire to take the Gospel to the masses.

Also the non-violence thing can't hold up to the Seventh Day Adventists. They've spread like crazy and we (Anabaptists) been around 3 times as long.

A reason Plain Anabaptist are not spreading is because only a small percentage have interest in taking the Gospel to the masses.

"A Christian is either a missionary or an imposter" - C.S.

We've been asking you to help us learn how you take the Gospel to the masses. I for one am always looking for more effective ways of doing this.

"No desire to reach the masses" is not a Christian path whatsoever.

I won't argue with this conclusion at all.
You asked why Anabaptists are not reaching the masses and various ones of us have been explaining why they have not.
If you want to know how to get people who are complacent begin charting a Christian path, I highly recommend going and learning from those who are helping people chart a Christian path. See what sort of principles govern their lives and learn their techniques. Then you too can help people chart a Christian path who are currently complacent.

Throwing rocks or sharpening iron?

Gary and I and others have explained how we think sharpening iron takes place.
I invite you to join the ranks of those who are sharpening iron!

Okay so we both basically agree that the Gospel is for taking the the masses, and this is what the Great Commission is about. Since Anabaptists have pretty much refused to because "they don't want to", we are in a heresy of practice. It's not in our doctrine, but practiced this way.

[Josh]

Not all people in Dallas have cars. There are also the elderly. There are also those who have bad eyesight. (the list goes on) There is however an extensive public transit system in Dallas. And no, don't assume people in Dallas are comfortable driving an hour to do basically anything. That's why there are many suburbs loaded with stores.

Do you know where public transit does not exist? Where there are Mennonite churches!

I just finished enumerating earlier the churches in NYC. I also even listed some of the public transit options. Two times ago when I worshipped in NYC, I took the "A" train and then walked a short distance to the church. (The last time, I took a car... because I had work obligations and using a car is faster in NYC than public transportation.)

Frankly, mrbilliam, I think you should get to know Holdemans and Apostolic Christians better, who have more urban missions (or just churches that are in cities) than other groups. I don't think you should expect Amish to be planting churches in cities. ACs also have extensive churches and outreach efforts in Eastern Europe, places like Hungary, Serbia, Romania, and now even Germany and so forth.

If you think Dallas doesn't have enough Anabaptist churches, then go plant one yourself. I have absolutely no desire to move to Texas. However, I did check with some of my fellow brethren and there is a tract route in Dallas and talk of establishing a mission there. (There already is a service unit in Houston doing a similar thing.) Perhaps you could link arms with them and help support that ministry.

[Josh]

Also for those who say other churches are bringing in a "watered down gospel", I think we should judge by Godly standards on that one. We by almost complete example are watering down Matthew 28.

We don't enforce Matthew 28.
But we do enforce 1 Corinthians 11 that has a non-radical verse at the end of the chapter saying "no such requirement for those who are unfamiliar".

Would Jesus rather us follow Matthew 28's Great Commission (the first command he gave after declaring all authority in Heaven and Earth) are his?
or
Women must absolutely cover their heads or no communion.

Great Commission > Head Coverings

Menno churches think

Great Commission < Head Coverings

mrbilliam,

Mennonites take seriously that the scriptures teach that men should not wear religious headcoverings.

Meanwhile, the Eastern Orthodox seem to practice the exact opposite of the scriptural teaching for men to have uncovered heads:



I have a very, very hard time reconciling a prominent church leader wearing special religious headgear:



Can you explain to us how this is being faithful to follow the simple reading of the scriptures?

[Valerie]

Also for those who say other churches are bringing in a "watered down gospel", I think we should judge by Godly standards on that one. We by almost complete example are watering down Matthew 28.

We don't enforce Matthew 28.
But we do enforce 1 Corinthians 11 that has a non-radical verse at the end of the chapter saying "no such requirement for those who are unfamiliar".

Would Jesus rather us follow Matthew 28's Great Commission (the first command he gave after declaring all authority in Heaven and Earth) are his?
or
Women must absolutely cover their heads or no communion.

Great Commission > Head Coverings

Menno churches think

Great Commission < Head Coverings

mrbilliam,

Mennonites take seriously that the scriptures teach that men should not wear religious headcoverings.

Meanwhile, the Eastern Orthodox seem to practice the exact opposite of the scriptural teaching for men to have uncovered heads:



I have a very, very hard time reconciling a prominent church leader wearing special religious headgear:



Can you explain to us how this is being faithful to follow the simple reading of the scriptures?

They don't wear head coverings laity never ever do- this is a specific ceremony- so no, Orthodox Christian men do not wear head coverings. We've visited a good 12 different Orthodox Churches & one for a solid year & still visit & yet to see the headpiece on any of them.

Why do Anabaptist women, for the most part, not cover their heads with exception of Amish? Does a little doily count or a hair ornament over a bun or black shell type thing a head covering?

[Josh]

Can you please explain the religious headgear that one of the most important leaders in all of Eastern Orthodoxy is wearing, then?

Why do Anabaptist women, for the most part, not cover their heads with exception of Amish? Does a little doily count or a hair ornament over a bun or black shell type thing a head covering?

First off, Amish are the majority of plain Anabaptists, in terms of numbers, so I'm glad you acknowledge their practice.

In my own denomination, women wear scarves like babushkas to church on Sunday which cover most of the head. We aren't Muslims who think we need to wear full face veils or burqas or hijabs, though. I think it is good to focus on the spirit of the law, and not the letter.

Conservative Mennonites who are drifiting towards the world's ways often wear smaller and smaller headcoverings until they wear none at all. I don't think this is good. But, for reference, I'm not really sure I'd say EO practice "covers the whole head" either, to use an example from a recent wedding at my local Greek Orthodox church:



That certainly isn't "covering the whole head" (the wedding service was a worship service, in case anyone is wondering), although my purpose of saying this is not to criticise the happy bride. Or the woman behind her. I am simply saying that is it not the norm for women to be wearing head coverings that cover the whole head, or even some of it, or even a covering at all in the Eastern Orthodox churches around here.

[Valerie]

Can you please explain the religious headgear that one of the most important leaders in all of Eastern Orthodoxy is wearing, then?

Ask an Orthodox priest (they don't wear them but they could answer your question) I edited my above post

[Josh]

Can you please explain the religious headgear that one of the most important leaders in all of Eastern Orthodoxy is wearing, then?

Ask an Orthodox priest (they don't wear them but they could answer your question) I edited my above post

OK, let's look at a picture of what my local priests wear when at church functions:



Can you explain what the headgear is? It is obviously religious.

[Valerie]

Greeks have definitely become more liberal like dome Mennonites.
Not sure what that "ceremony" is about.
I never saw our priest wear a headpiece but I'm sure it's symbolic as the Jews were

[Josh]

Greeks have definitely become more liberal like dome Mennonites

... okay, but the Eastern Orthodox say there is only ONE true church, and it's Eastern Orthodoxy. They don't make any distinction of whether it's Greek, or Russian, or something else. But I'd be glad to get you some pictures from my local Antiochian Orthodox Church (which isn't Greek), right up the road in Hartville:



Can you explain the religious headgear he's wearing?

Meanwhile, female parishioners certainly don't practice headcovering.