Should individuals have to identify themselves to the government?

[Soloist]

No, they should not have to identify themselves to the government upon demand of the government without cause.
If they are not doing a regulated activity such as walking, filming where lawful, interacting freely with the police, they should not be forced to submit to “show me your papers” as free people.

I agree.

By the same principle, those exercising armed state power should be identifiable and accountable. In a free society, badges, license plates, and visible faces are part of that accountability.

I’d say “that depends”. I don’t think government employees should have to disclose enough identifying information that it’s easy for miscreants to find their home address and go harass their family at home.

Do you agree?

If I have to be identified as a nurse and have my address and phone number published, then I think it’s perfectly legitimate that any employee in the government should have the same or conceal my information because I really don’t like getting all the spam.

[JohnH]

I agree.

By the same principle, those exercising armed state power should be identifiable and accountable. In a free society, badges, license plates, and visible faces are part of that accountability.

I’d say “that depends”. I don’t think government employees should have to disclose enough identifying information that it’s easy for miscreants to find their home address and go harass their family at home.

Do you agree?

If I have to be identified as a nurse and have my address and phone number published, then I think it’s perfectly legitimate that any employee in the government should have the same or conceal my information because I really don’t like getting all the spam.

If we had problems with people trying to harass nurses at their homes, I would support more privacy for that information.

[temporal1]

I’d say “that depends”. I don’t think government employees should have to disclose enough identifying information that it’s easy for miscreants to find their home address and go harass their family at home.

Do you agree?

If I have to be identified as a nurse and have my address and phone number published, then I think it’s perfectly legitimate that any employee in the government should have the same or conceal my information because I really don’t like getting all the spam.

If we had problems with people trying to harass nurses at their homes, I would support more privacy for that information.

So far as i know, there have always been special protections and privileges for law enforcement, as well as judges and juries, i’m not opposed. There are special risks.

i believe similar is true for those in medicine, first responders, etc. Probably not identical in all ways. i’m not opposed.
i want folks willing to do what is required to fulfill these special community needs, they should expect protections to do so.

There is nothing about our gov that is a pure democracy. Never was.

[Bootstrap]

No, they should not have to identify themselves to the government upon demand of the government without cause.
If they are not doing a regulated activity such as walking, filming where lawful, interacting freely with the police, they should not be forced to submit to “show me your papers” as free people.

I agree.

By the same principle, those exercising armed state power should be identifiable and accountable. In a free society, badges, license plates, and visible faces are part of that accountability.

I’d say “that depends”. I don’t think government employees should have to disclose enough identifying information that it’s easy for miscreants to find their home address and go harass their family at home.

Do you agree?

Local police and judges face threats too, and we don’t let them operate anonymously because of it. We protect their families, but we still require accountability when they exercise state power.

Without that, how can we have a free society? What keeps us from sliding into a police state?

[R7ehr]

No, they should not have to identify themselves to the government upon demand of the government without cause.
If they are not doing a regulated activity such as walking, filming where lawful, interacting freely with the police, they should not be forced to submit to “show me your papers” as free people.

I agree.

By the same principle, those exercising armed state power should be identifiable and accountable. In a free society, badges, license plates, and visible faces are part of that accountability.

I’d say “that depends”. I don’t think government employees should have to disclose enough identifying information that it’s easy for miscreants to find their home address and go harass their family at home.

Do you agree?

Modern police forces have figured out this balance well enough. They typically calmly have to identify their surname and badge number. I think that should be sufficient for accountability, transparency, and anonymity.
I don’t think that the public should be allowed to easily know their full name and address. But the public needs to have a way to pass identification (badge number at minimum) to investigators.

[JohnH]

Local police and judges face threats too, and we don’t let them operate anonymously because of it. We protect their families, but we still require accountability when they exercise state power.

The local police don't have their full names and home addresses listed somewhere I can find them. We also do not have a problem with people harassing them at their homes.

Without that, how can we have a free society? What keeps us from sliding into a police state?

I do not understand why you need to know the home address of a federal law enforcement officer in order to have a free society.

I think there is a level of denial going on here. The real reason anti-government people want this information is so they can harass federal agents at places like their homes or even their church, such as went on in Minneapolis.

[JimFoxvog]

The real reason anti-government people want this information is so they can harass federal agents at places like their homes or even their church, such as went on in Minneapolis.

Maybe, but there are very few anti-government people. There are many people who are against governmental abuse. An armed government officer needs to be able to be reported and held accountable for any abuse.

[temporal1]

Local police and judges face threats too, and we don’t let them operate anonymously because of it. We protect their families, but we still require accountability when they exercise state power.

Without that, how can we have a free society? What keeps us from sliding into a police state?

Where does this notion come from about lack of accountability? Anonymity?
i’ve never known of one case where an officer was accused of wrong doing when their identity was unknown.
Never a case of, “Well, there were 4 officers, it’s unknown which one ____________.”

Masks or no masks, these men and their expensive equipment don’t go around unaccounted for.

This sounds like the same thoughtlessness as claiming married women won’t be able to vote because their married last names don’t match their original birth certificates.

People hurriedly make things up, others excitedly recite them.

[Bootstrap]

Local police and judges face threats too, and we don’t let them operate anonymously because of it. We protect their families, but we still require accountability when they exercise state power.

Without that, how can we have a free society? What keeps us from sliding into a police state?

Where does this notion come from about lack of accountability? Anonymity?
i’ve never known of one case where an officer was accused of wrong doing when their identity was unknown.
Never a case of, “Well, there were 4 officers, it’s unknown which one ____________.”

Actually, there have been many cases where officers accused of wrongdoing were hard to identify. This isn’t isolated — it has happened repeatedly. That’s why governors, judges, and local police have pushed for federal agents to wear visible badges and clear agency identification.

Portland in 2020 is a clear example. Federal officers came in during the protests using unmarked vehicles and uniforms that just said “POLICE,” with no visible names, badge numbers, or even clear agency identification. People were detained and taken away without knowing exactly who the officers were, which agency they worked for, or why they were being detained. Families and lawyers didn’t always know where their relatives or clients had been taken. Oregon’s governor and Portland’s mayor publicly objected, and lawsuits were filed. When officers exercising federal power don’t clearly identify themselves, it becomes much harder to hold anyone accountable.

The shooting of Alex Pretti in Minneapolis raises similar concerns about accountability. Pretti, a 37-year-old ICU nurse, was shot and killed by federal immigration agents during an enforcement operation in the city, sparking protests and demands for transparency. Minnesota’s governor, Minneapolis’s mayor, and local law enforcement officials publicly pressed for a full, cooperative investigation, and state prosecutors have formally asked for evidence from the federal government. However, the FBI has told Minnesota authorities it will not share information or access to the evidence collected in the case, a move state investigators called “concerning” and unprecedented. Video and fact-checked reporting show that some early statements from federal officials about the shooting conflicted with available footage, and the names of the agents involved were not released by the government and were later reported by outside news organizations. When an officer’s identity and evidence are withheld after a fatal shooting, it makes individual accountability and civil action much harder.

Normally, when an officer shoots someone, there is a clear investigation and cooperation between agencies. In this case, state officials said they were not getting the transparency they expected. Strong public claims were made before the facts were fully known. When investigations aren’t open and information isn’t shared clearly, it’s difficult to see accountability at work.

Some of the strongest criticism has come from former law-enforcement officials and policing experts who have questioned the tactics used by federal agents in cases like Alex Pretti’s, saying the handling raised serious questions about transparency, use of force, and accountability.

[Bootstrap]

I do not understand why you need to know the home address of a federal law enforcement officer in order to have a free society.

I don’t want agents’ home addresses public. I do want badge numbers visible. If they can knock down my door or shoot me, there needs to be a clear way to identify which officer did it.

That’s basic accountability in a free society.

Currently, immigrants face much more persecution than Christians. But that could change. Some day, it could be you and me.