Is Jesus for “Law & Order?”

[Soloist]

Perhaps when discussing positions like this it would be useful to distinguish if comments are meant for all or just nation based or just church based.

Part of the complication of course is that the nation of Israel is sort of a precursor to the church.
In the beginning there was 1 nation.
Then there were many nations but one specifically chosen
Now there is 1 church that all become one in if they so choose to follow.
But we have things like

1Co 6:2  Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3  Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

This certainly doesn’t make sense to some views of the end times. Judge what?

The same time, why is one nation or another divided and is this a good thing or not? Should we cast out the foreigner ie John or is it fine to welcome him to our nation as us or our church as us?
If yes, then logic would dictate he is no different then any other who desires to join nation or church.
Perhaps we judge based on history? Australia was a prison colony. His people were rejected before, should we do the same?

[JohnH]

Wife: nobody is forcing anybody to. Just saying that God does not seem to be against interracial marriage. I think He cares more about what your future spouse believes than what they look like.

Specifically, God confused the tongues of the people of earth and scattered them into different people groups around the globe, and God has continued this confusion of the languages up to this very day.

It would appear, then, that God does indeed ordain that humans on earth be organised into ethno-linguistic groups.

Do you expect that to persist through eternity, or will the tongues eventually be unconfused and the original creation order restored with everyone speaking German?

One of the curiosities in Revelation is it describes “nations” (and “tongues”) as still existing, although I don’t really get too much into literal interpretations of Revelation.

I do think the idea that all humans should merge into a single ethno-linguistic group as some kind of utopian ideal is not something actually found in Christianity, and indeed is the opposite of what God ordained first when Noah landed (when he told people to disperse) and then enforced at Babel.

[JohnH]

The same time, why is one nation or another divided and is this a good thing or not? Should we cast out the foreigner ie John or is it fine to welcome him to our nation as us or our church as us?
If yes, then logic would dictate he is no different then any other who desires to join nation or church.
Perhaps we judge based on history? Australia was a prison colony. His people were rejected before, should we do the same?

Last I checked, our churches are not the same thing as an ethno-linguistic nation-state, Augustine’s attempts notwithstanding.

My original point stands: God decided he doesn’t want humanity united into one people with a common language and he confused our languages so that doing so is impossible.

[Soloist]

The same time, why is one nation or another divided and is this a good thing or not? Should we cast out the foreigner ie John or is it fine to welcome him to our nation as us or our church as us?
If yes, then logic would dictate he is no different then any other who desires to join nation or church.
Perhaps we judge based on history? Australia was a prison colony. His people were rejected before, should we do the same?

Last I checked, our churches are not the same thing as an ethno-linguistic nation-state, Augustine’s attempts notwithstanding.

My original point stands: God decided he doesn’t want humanity united into one people with a common language and he confused our languages so that doing so is impossible.

God did so in response to sin. He also originally made man for tending a garden and then cast him out in response to sin.

[JohnH]

The same time, why is one nation or another divided and is this a good thing or not? Should we cast out the foreigner ie John or is it fine to welcome him to our nation as us or our church as us?
If yes, then logic would dictate he is no different then any other who desires to join nation or church.
Perhaps we judge based on history? Australia was a prison colony. His people were rejected before, should we do the same?

Last I checked, our churches are not the same thing as an ethno-linguistic nation-state, Augustine’s attempts notwithstanding.

My original point stands: God decided he doesn’t want humanity united into one people with a common language and he confused our languages so that doing so is impossible.

God did so in response to sin. He also originally made man for tending a garden and then cast him out in response to sin.

Right, and that’s also why we wear clothes. I am arguing that natural ethno-linguistic ordering is as much God-ordained as wearing clothes is, and rebelling it is about as sensible as having a Christian nudist colony.

[Soloist]

Right, and that’s also why we wear clothes. I am arguing that natural ethno-linguistic ordering is as much God-ordained as wearing clothes is, and rebelling it is about as sensible as having a Christian nudist colony.

Okay, so… why are you in rebellion then?

[JohnH]

Right, and that’s also why we wear clothes. I am arguing that natural ethno-linguistic ordering is as much God-ordained as wearing clothes is, and rebelling it is about as sensible as having a Christian nudist colony.

Okay, so… why are you in rebellion then?

Rebellion against what?

[Soloist]

Right, and that’s also why we wear clothes. I am arguing that natural ethno-linguistic ordering is as much God-ordained as wearing clothes is, and rebelling it is about as sensible as having a Christian nudist colony.

Okay, so… why are you in rebellion then?

Rebellion against what?

You left your homeland and ethnic group.

I mean, basically your options are you don’t really believe what you say, it doesn’t apply to you, or because you speak the same language it doesn’t apply, or a combination of your white/same language.

[JohnH]

Okay, so… why are you in rebellion then?

Rebellion against what?

You left your homeland and ethnic group.

I mean, basically your options are you don’t really believe what you say, it doesn’t apply to you, or because you speak the same language it doesn’t apply, or a combination of your white/same language.

I said “ethno-linguistic” which is pretty broad. I did move to a majority French speaking place when I was 18 for a year.

My point stands: God has organised men into ethno-linguistic groups, including in church. A church doesn’t function unless it’s composed of people from the same linguistic grouping.

[Soloist]

Rebellion against what?

You left your homeland and ethnic group.

I mean, basically your options are you don’t really believe what you say, it doesn’t apply to you, or because you speak the same language it doesn’t apply, or a combination of your white/same language.

I said “ethno-linguistic” which is pretty broad. I did move to a majority French speaking place when I was 18 for a year.

My point stands: God has organised men into ethno-linguistic groups, including in church. A church doesn’t function unless it’s composed of people from the same linguistic grouping.

Okay so doesn’t apply to you. You also seem to believe it does apply to the church but you selectively edited out ethnic group.

I think we all agree it’s Scriptural that we need to speak the same language. You draw the line at saying ethnic-linguistic for the church sort of, so you actually have a separation between church and nation.