Pilgrim Conference split

[Biblical Anabaptist]

Does anybody have a membership number and bishop number before Northeastern left?

And what it was at the end of 2024?

Northeastern was granted tax-exempt status in October 2014.In the 2015 Pilgrim Directory (printed Jan 2015) There are 9 bishops listed. Three bishops left prior to that to form the Northeastern Conference.

At the end of 2023 there were 14 bishops listed. There were several bishop ordinations in 2024, but I don't know how many.

2015 Directory lists 1458 members. The 2024 (end of 2023) directory lists 2320 members

[mike]

I think Ernie’s observations about Pilgrim and Hope are both accurate and astute.

I still do not see the logic of Pilgrim splitting over size when each of the new groupings could be called small, medium and large.

But I confess that while absolutely not in the “the Pilgrim split was Steve’s fault” I am not a fan either.

It just strikes me as odd that a split over size is done the first time the overall membership size takes a step BACK in size, but maybe they concluded size was a factor in the Northeastern thing (which I do not think is true).

Anyway, appreciate the feedback from folks that are closer. I spoke to a minister in Eastern this week whose son is in Pilgrim. He indicated there is pretty universal “at peace” over the whole thing so that is good.

I actually think any binding structure larger than one congregation is too big. So I can see your point - even the new conferences are all quite large.

How well did the “let’s all be an independent church” thing work out, though, for groups like charity?

Some good some not so good. And they are far from being the only independent Anabaptist churches around. (They sometimes functioned as a conference anyway.) Some Beachy churches function somewhat independently.

But the real proof of what can happen with large denominational or conference structures is obvious. Take a look at the Mennonite church itself. It’s a mixed bag to say the least.

Our conference is supposed to be a stable and safe structure and yet our oldest congregations are full of elderly people whose children aren’t around and whose membership is only sustained by an influx of people from other groups. I don’t view a history like this as being that much more admirable or stable than some of the independent Anabaptist churches I am familiar with.

[JohnH]

Our conference is supposed to be a stable and safe structure and yet our oldest congregations are full of elderly people whose children aren’t around and whose membership is only sustained by an influx of people from other groups. I don’t view a history like this as being that much more admirable or stable than some of the independent Anabaptist churches I am familiar with.

That's a fair criticism.

I don't like a conference that is a hierarchical, top-down behemoth.

But I also don't like a loose "fellowship" model where churches effectively end up just supporting whatever the new, cool movement is (which is usually 1 or 2 notches less conservative than they are), instead of coming together to support something that they all agree on.

A congregation that seems to be losing its young people needs to take a cold, hard look at itself and ask itself why this is happening. Unfortunately that level of self-insight is difficult. It's not an issue in my group so I guess I don't think about it too often, but it's really frustrating to witness it happen in one of my relative's churches... I don't know how I could comfortably stay in a place like that.

[R7ehr]

Our conference is supposed to be a stable and safe structure and yet our oldest congregations are full of elderly people whose children aren’t around and whose membership is only sustained by an influx of people from other groups. I don’t view a history like this as being that much more admirable or stable than some of the independent Anabaptist churches I am familiar with.

That's a fair criticism.

I don't like a conference that is a hierarchical, top-down behemoth.

But I also don't like a loose "fellowship" model where churches effectively end up just supporting whatever the new, cool movement is (which is usually 1 or 2 notches less conservative than they are), instead of coming together to support something that they all agree on.

A congregation that seems to be losing its young people needs to take a cold, hard look at itself and ask itself why this is happening. Unfortunately that level of self-insight is difficult. It's not an issue in my group so I guess I don't think about it too often, but it's really frustrating to witness it happen in one of my relative's churches... I don't know how I could comfortably stay in a place like that.

My thoughts too.

[Ken]

1 Corinthians 11:17

Paul has some words about church factions

17 In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good. 18 In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. 19 No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval. 20 So then, when you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat, 21 for when you are eating, some of you go ahead with your own private suppers. As a result, one person remains hungry and another gets drunk. 22 Don’t you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God by humiliating those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? Certainly not in this matter!

Which has nothing at all to do with Pilgrim’s organizing themselves into multiple conferences.

If you are aware of a Pilgrim church which has one member starving at communion and another is drunk, please tell us.

As I understand the history. Pilgrim which is now breaking up, split off as a faction from Eastern, which itself split off from Lancaster Mennonite Conference, which itself more recently split off from MCUSA. That brings us back to the 1960s. Before that I'm not sure. But there is a whole lot of factions and divisions involved in the world of Anabaptism.

As always, people read what they want to read into scripture to confirm their own beliefs and priorities. Paul definitely warns Christians about breaking up into factions here and elsewhere. But Mennonites tend to ignore this and focus on other teachings.

[Ernie]

Also, this may have been planned, but if it were due to size, I would have thought to see it BEFORE the development of Northeastern group, not after. Did not Pilgrim get smaller due to the Northeastern development.

It just strikes me as odd that a split over size is done the first time the overall membership size takes a step BACK in size, but maybe they concluded size was a factor in the Northeastern thing (which I do not think is true).

In 2015, after the split, Pilgrim had 1473 members and Northeastern had 333. (roughly 1800 total)

By 2020, Pilgrim was back up to 1860 members.

In 2024, Pilgrim had 2320 members and Northeastern had 670+.
So in 9 years, Pilgrim grew by 60% and Northeastern by 100%.

Pilgrim lost 333 to Northeastern, but gained 847 in the years since then.

So, at the time of the 3-way intentional, denominational decentralization in 2025, Pilgrim had 500 more members than what it had at the time of the Northeastern exodus.

[JayP]

Interesting. Odd question. Are any of Stephen Ebersole’s sons in the ministry?

[Biblical Anabaptist]

Interesting. Odd question. Are any of Stephen Ebersole’s sons in the ministry?

I believe several are. One was recently silenced. His 3 youngest sons, I am told, have joined the (Greek?) Orthodox Church

[Ernie]

1 Corinthians 11:17

Paul has some words about church factions

Which has nothing at all to do with Pilgrim’s organizing themselves into multiple conferences.

If you are aware of a Pilgrim church which has one member starving at communion and another is drunk, please tell us.

As I understand the history. Pilgrim which is now breaking up, split off as a faction from Eastern, which itself split off from Lancaster Mennonite Conference, which itself more recently split off from MCUSA. That brings us back to the 1960s. Before that I'm not sure. But there is a whole lot of factions and divisions involved in the world of Anabaptism.

As always, people read what they want to read into scripture to confirm their own beliefs and priorities. Paul definitely warns Christians about breaking up into factions here and elsewhere. But Mennonites tend to ignore this and focus on other teachings.

Anabaptists and factions is a topic worth discussing, but this thread is not about factions, rather about decentralization.

[JayP]

Or Ernie, how a form of centralization cannot work in too large a model.

One could view what Pilgrim is doing as an argument our structure of governance works, but only within a certain scale.

I would argue Pilgrim is not de centralizing here, but rather splitting so that the “form” is preserved not changed.

The amoeba is splitting into three amoebas because if it grows any larger while it would technically still be an amoeba, it’s size would place the bishops too far from the grassroots or too many additional bishops changes the nature of governance such that the form remains the same but the functional aspect would be something new and different.

In reality, Old Order Amish have been this way.