What are your thoughts on alternatives to military service if drafted?

[barnhart]

You did not include "flee" in your poll.

I have ancestors who fled conscription into the Confederate army. Some stayed local but hid in caves or burrows under their houses, others paid for substitutes and several, at least three, conformed to conscription and marched in the army with a pledge to never fire.

[Neto]

I suppose most here know this, but seeing Barnhart's comments about the sacrifices some of his family made during the War Between the States, I thought perhaps I should have mentioned that the coming threat of conscription was the reason my own family fled the Russian Empire and moved to the US. But then in roughly 50 years, they faced it here, and then again and again not long after that. So on the bold face of it, fleeing seems futile, but those who stayed faced far worse than that.

I didn't think about it when I read through the 'options' in the survey, but that is another one that was missed - to leave everything behind and flee to another country. I remember hearing the 'soul searching' expressed when the 100 year 'anniversary' rolled around (1974), people asking if they would be willing to do that all over again.

[QuietlyListening]

My husband's lottery number 22 during the Vietnam war and instead of trying for college deferment as many did in those days, he took CO status did alternative service and spent 2 years in Costa Rica on a medical team thru Rosedale. His father spent time doing alternative service during WWII.
Many truly suffered much for choosing not to be part of the military - always thought it was interesting many could pay for a someone to fight for them during the Civil War.

[Ernie]

Getting involved in the military involves swearing fealty (faith/allegiance) to the ideology of America in a VERY powerful way. Not only do you have to swear it verbally (and swearing an oath might be the first sign you stepped into the wrong shoes), you have to perform your faith through works (exercises) and religious rituals (like marching, saluting, honoring the flag), and recite various catechisms and liturgies designed to mold you into a person who sees his fellow countrymen as higher and more human than anyone who is citizen of another nation, ESPECIALLY citizens of nations yours is at war with. You have enemies assigned to you, so to speak. As a Christian, you know how you are to treat your enemies. As a member of the military, to show any love or compassion to your enemy is aiding and abetting an enemy of the nation, which is treasonous and counter to your oath.

You think an oath would be required in order for a person to be conscripted into a non-combatant position in the military?

[Ernie]

What is the purpose of the military?
Is the person who builds the guided missiles less valuable to the war effort than the man on the front lines who calls out the coordinates for the missile strike?

So then Mennonites and others should not have voluntarily fed soldiers and taken care of wounded soldiers throughout our storied past? Weren't they helping the war?
And what about being forced to feed soldiers and care for wounded soldiers? Wasn't that helping the war?

The military insists that the medics are an integral part of the force and critically important to the goal of winning the war. Why would you want to be a war hero?

What if you refused to be made a war hero, just like Paul and Barnabas refused to be worshipped as gods?

[Neto]

What is the purpose of the military?
Is the person who builds the guided missiles less valuable to the war effort than the man on the front lines who calls out the coordinates for the missile strike?

So then Mennonites and others should not have voluntarily fed soldiers and taken care of wounded soldiers throughout our storied past? Weren't they helping the war?
And what about being forced to feed soldiers and care for wounded soldiers? Wasn't that helping the war?
....

This was at the center of the sometimes heated discussions in the colonies, in the early 1860's, as "the writing was on the wall" regarding the almost certain loss of the privilegium offered to Dutch Mennonites in Prussia a century or so earlier, to convince them to move to the new Russian territory (Ukraine). My impression is that most felt that offering medical care for the soldiers was an act of compassion that fell within the command of Jesus, when he told his listeners to "go the second mile" for a Roman soldier. (And also, the commands of the Law as handed to Moses directly from God, to show compassion and help even animals, on the Sabbath yet, too.) The Mennonites in Russia willingly offered medical care to everyone, but they "knew' that full military service might well be the next step, and it was, for those who stayed.

If a man was seriously wounded while committing murder, should we offer medical care? I think so. Should we, through words of admonition urge the family of the victim not to kill the perpetrator? (I did that once, and I sure hope that it was not a grave sin.)

[barnhart]

Getting involved in the military involves swearing fealty (faith/allegiance) to the ideology of America in a VERY powerful way. Not only do you have to swear it verbally (and swearing an oath might be the first sign you stepped into the wrong shoes), you have to perform your faith through works (exercises) and religious rituals (like marching, saluting, honoring the flag), and recite various catechisms and liturgies designed to mold you into a person who sees his fellow countrymen as higher and more human than anyone who is citizen of another nation, ESPECIALLY citizens of nations yours is at war with. You have enemies assigned to you, so to speak. As a Christian, you know how you are to treat your enemies. As a member of the military, to show any love or compassion to your enemy is aiding and abetting an enemy of the nation, which is treasonous and counter to your oath.

You think an oath would be required in order for a person to be conscripted into a non-combatant position in the military?

Wasn't this the issue that pushed Dean Taylor out of the military?

[Ken]

Getting involved in the military involves swearing fealty (faith/allegiance) to the ideology of America in a VERY powerful way. Not only do you have to swear it verbally (and swearing an oath might be the first sign you stepped into the wrong shoes), you have to perform your faith through works (exercises) and religious rituals (like marching, saluting, honoring the flag), and recite various catechisms and liturgies designed to mold you into a person who sees his fellow countrymen as higher and more human than anyone who is citizen of another nation, ESPECIALLY citizens of nations yours is at war with. You have enemies assigned to you, so to speak. As a Christian, you know how you are to treat your enemies. As a member of the military, to show any love or compassion to your enemy is aiding and abetting an enemy of the nation, which is treasonous and counter to your oath.

You think an oath would be required in order for a person to be conscripted into a non-combatant position in the military?

Every Federal job has an oath of office requirement, not just the military. But you can just affirm that you will follow it, you don't have to swear: https://www.opm.gov/forms/pdfimage/sf61.pdf

[Ernie]

Every Federal job has an oath of office requirement, not just the military. But you can just affirm that you will follow it, you don't have to swear: https://www.opm.gov/forms/pdfimage/sf61.pdf

So if the US ever resorted again to a draft or conscription, and CO positions were not accepted, a person would need to swear or affirm before serving in the military. They wouldn't just force a person to serve without first getting some sort of verbal commitment?

[Ken]

Every Federal job has an oath of office requirement, not just the military. But you can just affirm that you will follow it, you don't have to swear: https://www.opm.gov/forms/pdfimage/sf61.pdf

So if the US ever resorted again to a draft or conscription, and CO positions were not accepted, a person would need to swear or affirm before serving in the military. They wouldn't just force a person to serve without first getting some sort of verbal commitment?

I don't know how it actually works. It has been 50+ years since we have a draft.

But if I had to guess they would just treat you as non-compliant and toss you out of the military and subject you to all the criminal penalties attached to draft evasion or some such. Same as if you refused to show up or engaged in any other sort of insubordination during the induction process.

I honestly don't think we will ever see another draft again because such a large portion of the American population isn't really fit for military service. Many are to obese or have other disqualifying issues. If the military stops taking transgender soldiers as Trump is claiming he wants to do, then any kid who doesn't want to get drafted only has to claim he is transgender and will be ineligible. That used to be the case with gay soldiers too but they are no longer excluded. Even during Vietnam you could claim to be gay to get out of the draft but there was such social disapproval of being gay that few young men took that option. Reportedly some gay men were given 4F medical disqualification status but that depended on the draft board and medical officers.

A bit of googling turned up the statistic that 77% of American young men are unfit for military service: https://www.military.com/daily-news/202 ... rvice.html So I doubt the military really wants a draft in which they would have to sort through mass numbers of unfit and unwilling draftees to get to the 23% who are qualified and willing. Regular recruiting is probably easier and more efficient. And if they can't hit recruiting targets, sweeten the pot.