Singing Groups

[KingdomBuilder]

Our church choir is called, by those of us in it, the "Alley Cats"..Let's just say we won't be getting a deal to travel and sing all over the nation.

I don't like praising and adoring people who can sing "better" than others.
Does the Lord look more fairly on those with more talent? Surely not.

[joshuabgood]

From the program of the singing group I heard tonight:

The primary purpose of the Choir is to glorify God. We seek to bless people and minister to audiences for Jesus Christ through uplifting singing. We also seek to preserve and to promote good singing in the church of today.

I note that 1/3 of their itinerary is non-church settings (healthcare facilities, Teen Challenge) and 2/3 of the offering goes to CAM. I take this as an indication that they are not overcome with elitism and pride, and their actions appeared to be consistent with that. Although it certainly was "good singing" there was no labeling of anything else as "not good" as our Good brother mentions above. It was a blessing.

I get it...but what I would object to is the third sentence that construes their singing as "good singing." Not that it is a huge deal, however, why not label it what it is, "classical choir" singing in the church today. And if they are really "good," then use a term like "skillful classical singing" or something like that rather than a morally loaded term like "good."

If it were bluegrass or gospel singing, or "full gospel" choir type of music, (or other genres) - that would also be promoting good singing in my opinion. Generally in my experience that view isn't shared by folks who conduct or organize, (you'll find a few more folks open to it in the actual singers themselves) classical Mennonite choirs. What I react against a little is a "classical groups" claiming the nomenclature "good music" or "good singing."

[lesterb]

From the program of the singing group I heard tonight:

The primary purpose of the Choir is to glorify God. We seek to bless people and minister to audiences for Jesus Christ through uplifting singing. We also seek to preserve and to promote good singing in the church of today.

I note that 1/3 of their itinerary is non-church settings (healthcare facilities, Teen Challenge) and 2/3 of the offering goes to CAM. I take this as an indication that they are not overcome with elitism and pride, and their actions appeared to be consistent with that. Although it certainly was "good singing" there was no labeling of anything else as "not good" as our Good brother mentions above. It was a blessing.

I get it...but what I would object to is the third sentence that construes their singing as "good singing." Not that it is a huge deal, however, why not label it what it is, "classical choir" singing in the church today. And if they are really "good," then use a term like "skillful classical singing" or something like that rather than a morally loaded term like "good."

If it were bluegrass or gospel singing, or "full gospel" choir type of music, (or other genres) - that would also be promoting good singing in my opinion. Generally in my experience that view isn't shared by folks who conduct or organize, (you'll find a few more folks open to it in the actual singers themselves) classical Mennonite choirs. What I react against a little is a "classical groups" claiming the nomenclature "good music" or "good singing."

Ahh, now here is a man after my own heart...
I couldn't have put it better. I really don't see how some of these repetitive classical songs bring glory to anyone other than the director. They don't sound nice, they don't really have a message. Their only redeeming factor is that they are difficult, and so the singers have to be good, right?

Hey, what happened to the smilie that collapses?

[Sudsy]

Our church choir is called, by those of us in it, the "Alley Cats"..Let's just say we won't be getting a deal to travel and sing all over the nation.

I don't like praising and adoring people who can sing "better" than others.
Does the Lord look more fairly on those with more talent? Surely not.

Oh come, let us sing to the Lord;
let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation!
Let us come into his presence with thanksgiving;
let us make a joyful noise to him with songs of praise!

Psalm 95:1-2

Nothing here that speaks of 4 part harmony, a cappella, on key, just a joyful noise.

[KingdomBuilder]

Nothing here that speaks of 4 part harmony, a cappella, on key, just a joyful noise.

But if that's your joyful noise, then it's great, too!

[Sudsy]

Nothing here that speaks of 4 part harmony, a cappella, on key, just a joyful noise.

But if that's your joyful noise, then it's great, too!

Amen. Another area I think is interesting is all the scriptures regarding shouting. Outside of charismatic type groups it would seem shouting in praise would not be appropriate.

Psalm 98:4 -Shout joyfully to the LORD, all the earth; Break forth and sing for joy and sing praises.
Psalm 35:27 - Let them shout for joy and rejoice, who favor my vindication; And let them say continually, "The LORD be magnified, Who delights in the prosperity of His servant."
Psalm 66:1-2 - Shout joyfully to God, all the earth; Sing the glory of His name; Make His praise glorious.
Ezra 3:11 - They sang, praising and giving thanks to the LORD, saying, "For He is good, for His lovingkindness is upon Israel forever." And all the people shouted with a great shout when they praised the LORD because the foundation of the house of the LORD was laid.
Psalm 47:1 - O clap your hands, all peoples; Shout to God with the voice of joy.
Isaiah 12:6 - Cry aloud and shout for joy, O inhabitant of Zion, For great in your midst is the Holy One of Israel.
Zephaniah 3:14 - Shout for joy, O daughter of Zion! Shout in triumph, O Israel! Rejoice and exult with all your heart, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Psalm 95:1 - O come, let us sing for joy to the LORD, Let us shout joyfully to the rock of our salvation.
Psalm 118:15 - The sound of joyful shouting and salvation is in the tents of the righteous; The right hand of the LORD does valiantly.

Me thinks we are much too conservative in our worship.

[Heirbyadoption]

Not menno-specific, but there's been a revival in Sacred Harp/shape note singing in the past 60 or so years, and a lot of cities have singing groups. If you look up "sacred harp [city]" and live in a decent-sized city there might be something nearby. A lot of it is primitive baptist-based but the calvinist theology isn't in a majority of the songs. I know a few conservative mennonites that really like that tradition.

Here's a link to a youtube playlist of sacred harp music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl6UpzX ... B42E6EC612

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions, although I understand this might not be what you're looking for.

Thank you. I have been a Harper for years. I still miss my little group out in Berkeley CA - we had the perfect little chapel to meet in, and some extra-strong leaders. Unfortunately, the closest ones around my home in southern PA are 2-3 hours away(which I don't mind, it's just hard to swing with kids, work, church, and a non-Harping wife). My question revolves primarily around accappella singing groups such as the Mennos abound in, though.

I used to sing with that group in berkeley too! They're really great. I sympathize with the distance though.

Small world. Are we acquainted? I moved away from CA in 2010. I was the German Baptist guy who came over from Modesto on Monday evenings.

[Heirbyadoption]

Since special singing groups are not something that is commonly believed and practiced among plain people

Ernie, could you expand on this? It doesn't reflect my experience with Mennonites nor in any Plain bookstore I've ever been in, except for WashCos and OOGBs.

[cmbl]

Ahh, now here is a man after my own heart...
I couldn't have put it better. I really don't see how some of these repetitive classical songs bring glory to anyone other than the director. They don't sound nice, they don't really have a message. Their only redeeming factor is that they are difficult, and so the singers have to be good, right?

Hey, what happened to the smilie that collapses?

Could you give a few examples of these songs?

[joshuabgood]

Ahh, now here is a man after my own heart...
I couldn't have put it better. I really don't see how some of these repetitive classical songs bring glory to anyone other than the director. They don't sound nice, they don't really have a message. Their only redeeming factor is that they are difficult, and so the singers have to be good, right?

Hey, what happened to the smilie that collapses?

Just to clarify - I actually do value complex music - even when it is repetitive. I like advanced choral music. I sing it on occasion and was kind of raised on it from little up. What I don't care for is the "elitism" that turns up when folks refer to this kind of music as "good music" with the insinuation that other genres aren't. Also - I think more complex art has to be taught and studied to be enjoyed. It is worth studying in my view, but choirs should consider their audience firstly when preparing songs.

Lastly, I don't like confusing a concert with the assembling of the saints. Let a religiously themed art show, be what it is, a religiously themed art show. It may encourage and inspire some who appreciate that type of art. Don't call it church though...

Josh