Poll: Loving Putin

[nett]

The best option are conservative settlements in a country whose government respects the liberties and pluralism of different communities. (With other words, an Amish settlement, in the United States, even now - perhaps even in hundred years.)

I'm afraid I have to disagree. It doesn't really matter how conservative you are. If you participate in the culture at all (and why wouldn't you, if it's free), you will drift towards more the world, away from God. This is true in the Amish, Mennonites, evangelicals, catholics etc etc. The only groups I don't drifting at all, are the ones that completely shun the culture in every way possible.

From this perspective, I actually think a hostile, restrictive culture is actually more conducive to real christianity.

[Sudsy]

For those who have 'Christian love for Putin' how is this heart felt love being expressed ?

Pray for him to repent and turn to a life of obedience to King Jesus, refrain from expressing disapproval in terms that are dehumanizing (ethnic or racial slurs, animal comparisons) or claiming he is possessed or under the direct control of Satan, don't claim specific knowledge of his motives, don't express wishes of evil on him, pray for him as you would your own brother who has fallen into deception and sin.

Amen ! I like this post.

We don't really know what all is causing Putin to think and act the way he does. There can be many reasons why we come to a place in our lives when our ways of thinking can be so far from God and we don't even realize it. Scripture tells us to guard our hearts. What we spend our time thinking about can control us, so scripture tells us what to focus on.

How do we know what is prevalent in our hearts ? What comes out of our mouth - Matthew 12:34. As another says it "What’s down in the well comes up in the bucket.”

Putin needs prayer as barnhart posted.

[Sudsy]

For those who have 'Christian love for Putin' how is this heart felt love being expressed ?

Pray for him to repent and turn to a life of obedience to King Jesus, refrain from expressing disapproval in terms that are dehumanizing (ethnic or racial slurs, animal comparisons) or claiming he is possessed or under the direct control of Satan, don't claim specific knowledge of his motives, don't express wishes of evil on him, pray for him as you would your own brother who has fallen into deception and sin.

Amen ! I like this post.

We don't really know what all is causing Putin to think and act the way he does. There can be many reasons why we come to a place in our lives when our ways of thinking can be so far from God and we don't even realize it. Scripture tells us to guard our hearts. What we spend our time thinking about can control us, so scripture tells us what to focus on.

How do we know what is prevalent in our hearts ? What comes out of our mouth - Matthew 12:34. As another says it "What’s down in the well comes up in the bucket.”

Putin needs prayer as barnhart posted.

p.s. How can option #2 be half that of option #1 todate ?

[temporal1]

Reminded of this topic:

boot:
This is blaming the victim.

In everyday cases, courts do not agree that property owners who set lethal booby traps for potential trespassers are justified because they may become targets, or victims. i consider these people/homeowners victims, potential victims, i sympathize!
i don’t believe setting lethal booby traps is the way, or The Way.

When i was younger, i sometimes met young men who could be very clever at devising all manner booby traps! Ingenious.
However, something just doesn’t ring true about this mentality. It can be justified. i don’t think Jesus, or U.S. law much sympathizes. Even with non-lethal booby traps. Men can be very clever. i.e., mankind. That doesn’t make it “right in God’s eyes.”

When opposing sides refuse to listen to one another, to show respect, regardless of dislike, this often leads to escalation of feelings, tensions, violence, divorce, even war.

Jesus tells His to turn the other cheek, to love enemies-(those much harder to love than friendly victims).
What have you done to love Putin? Or even show respect for his position? Anything?

Diplomacy requires neutrality. i’m pretty sure.

[Bootstrap]

Pray for him to repent and turn to a life of obedience to King Jesus, refrain from expressing disapproval in terms that are dehumanizing (ethnic or racial slurs, animal comparisons) or claiming he is possessed or under the direct control of Satan, don't claim specific knowledge of his motives, don't express wishes of evil on him, pray for him as you would your own brother who has fallen into deception and sin.

This seems right to me. In addition, I would say this: we do not need to applaud his actions to love him. Love does not mean closing our eyes to wrongdoing. If I were closer to him, I would have additional ways to love Putin, but he doesn't talk to me, there's nothing I know of that I can do for him in a constructive way.

I think we also have to love the victims of this war, which is being fought in Ukraine. I can do that by caring for refugees, sending blankets and food and other non-military aid via groups I trust not to use it for military ends, and praying for them too. As far as I know, Putin already has blankets and a safe place to sleep.

[temporal1]

Pray for him to repent and turn to a life of obedience to King Jesus, refrain from expressing disapproval in terms that are dehumanizing (ethnic or racial slurs, animal comparisons) or claiming he is possessed or under the direct control of Satan, don't claim specific knowledge of his motives, don't express wishes of evil on him, pray for him as you would your own brother who has fallen into deception and sin.

This seems right to me.
In addition, I would say this: we do not need to applaud his actions to love him. Love does not mean closing our eyes to wrongdoing.
If I were closer to him, I would have additional ways to love Putin, but he doesn't talk to me, there's nothing I know of that I can do for him in a constructive way.

I think we also have to love the victims of this war, which is being fought in Ukraine. I can do that by caring for refugees, sending blankets and food and other non-military aid via groups I trust not to use it for military ends, and praying for them too. As far as I know, Putin already has blankets and a safe place to sleep.

i see this as a significant change for you, hopefully acknowledging that (Josh and others) are not guilty of siding with or promoting putin because they question whether immediate hi-stakes military response was THE BEST AND ONLY possible response.

Evenso, i’m not detecting a direct response to Matthew 5:44

OP:

Matthew 5:44
https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-44.htm

43You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor’ and ‘Hate your enemy.’

44But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.
He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.…

The U.S. sees Putin/Russia as its enemy, and appears committed to (annihilation) using Ukraine as its battleground.
Christians cannot expect nations to follow Jesus. And, they don’t!

It gets into questions of Just War. Which the U.S. loves.

Can Christians support a "just war" in a conflict?
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php ... 92e7c8ef2b

Matthew 5:44 goes to a higher level.
As far as i’m willing to go, praying as i have+am for resolution, i don’t believe i’m there (where Jesus wants His to be).

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult, and not tried.
Quote by G. K. Chesterton

[Bootstrap]

Pray for him to repent and turn to a life of obedience to King Jesus, refrain from expressing disapproval in terms that are dehumanizing (ethnic or racial slurs, animal comparisons) or claiming he is possessed or under the direct control of Satan, don't claim specific knowledge of his motives, don't express wishes of evil on him, pray for him as you would your own brother who has fallen into deception and sin.

This seems right to me.
In addition, I would say this: we do not need to applaud his actions to love him. Love does not mean closing our eyes to wrongdoing.
If I were closer to him, I would have additional ways to love Putin, but he doesn't talk to me, there's nothing I know of that I can do for him in a constructive way.

I think we also have to love the victims of this war, which is being fought in Ukraine. I can do that by caring for refugees, sending blankets and food and other non-military aid via groups I trust not to use it for military ends, and praying for them too. As far as I know, Putin already has blankets and a safe place to sleep.

i see this as a significant change for you, hopefully acknowledging that (Josh and others) are not guilty of siding with or promoting putin because they question whether immediate hi-stakes military response was THE BEST AND ONLY possible response.

I think this is more or less what I have been saying all along. And I know we talk past each other quite a bit.

I don't think I have objected to people asking whether a military response was the best and only possible response. I think I have objected to things like this:

Referring to mike’s post, P.222, about putin’s attempt at a ceasefire, there was NO reference to Christianity, i just happened to think of the Epiphany - which is probably observed on a later day in Russia? Jan 19? Not Jan 6. i added that every moment is one to pray for resolution, in my view.

If Ukraine ends with the West, they will be flying gaudy rainbow flags of some variation, they just keep getting uglier; Ukranian lives might be more familiar to them, in religion and culture, if they end in part or more with Russia. imho.

To me, at least, it often feels as though you and Josh don't express a lot of sympathy for the victims of the war. When you say things like what I just quoted, it seems to imply that Putin is doing the right thing by invading them, that there's some justification for unilaterally invading them and decimating the country. I find it strange that you speak out so loudly against defensive war, but not against an invasion.

To me, it often feels like you express a lot of sympathy for Putin and very little for his victims. Maybe that's not what you intend, maybe I'm not reading you accurately, but that's what I am responding to. I think we would find more common ground if you would chime in with concern for the real victims of this war.

The U.S. sees Putin/Russia as its enemy, and appears committed to (annihilation) using Ukraine as its battleground.

That makes no sense to me. If the battleground is Ukraine, then only Ukraine can be annihilated. Russia seems safe and secure. We don't see military forces trying to annihilate Russia. Nobody is sending cruise missiles to decimate Moscow. Nobody is trying to make sure that the citizens of Moscow do not have heat or power in the midst of winter.

Russia is not the battleground, Ukraine is. And it wasn't Ukraine's choice.

[Bootstrap]

Evenso, i’m not detecting a direct response to Matthew 5:44

OP:

Matthew 5:44
https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-44.htm

43 You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor’ and ‘Hate your enemy.’

44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.
He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.…

Well, I'm generally just a little baffled by this question.

Putin is not persecuting me. He is not my enemy. And I don't really have much opportunity to talk to him or do anything that he would even notice. So I really don't know an obvious way to apply this verse to Putin.

He is, however, attacking the civilian population of Ukraine. He is their enemy. For them, I do have the opportunity to apply what the Bible says about refugees and those in need.

[Josh]

The only reason the US hasn’t attacked Russia, though, is because of the Nuclear deterrent. Unfortunately America is a bellicose, belligerent nation.

Much like the Soviet Union was.

[Sudsy]

The only reason the US hasn’t attacked Russia, though, is because of the Nuclear deterrent. Unfortunately America is a bellicose, belligerent nation.

Much like the Soviet Union was.

My view is that overall God is still in control and He will determine how things end and when. In other words if there is ever a nuclear war, it will only occur because God has allowed it to happen. As Christians we can live in the peace of God that is beyond any understanding knowing that man does not have the last say about the future and to absent in the body is to be present with our Lord. May we encourage one another in this blessed assurance.