Why Mennonite Death Rate Was Double Average During 1918 Flu Epidemic

[MaxPC]

Actually they abandoned many of those practices because they were harmful in favor of Western medicine. Then their communist revolution drove out westerners. Since then they have refocused their priorities on making money to funnel into their military.

It's not abandoned where I live. I can take you to streets lined with practitioners and herb vendors. I don't see people dying from it. It won't cure cancer or a broken leg, but I don't think it causes too much damage.

We’re talking about China, not Brooklyn.
Vendors and practices in Brooklyn are under the oversight of American agencies. If someone dies from bad treatment the state and local feds will be investigating. Such official investigations don’t happen in China according to that report. China is more interested in investigating “subversive activities” such as Christian communities. Their persecution of Christians is notorious.

[Josh]

Actually they abandoned many of those practices because they were harmful in favor of Western medicine. Then their communist revolution drove out westerners. Since then they have refocused their priorities on making money to funnel into their military.

It's not abandoned where I live. I can take you to streets lined with practitioners and herb vendors. I don't see people dying from it. It won't cure cancer or a broken leg, but I don't think it causes too much damage.

I don’t think hunting rare species like the rhinoceros to extinction counts as “not causing too much damage”. Chinese traditional medicine is pure hogwash, and the tradition of wet markets with wild animals (aka bushmeat) being sold is what has caused the last several of these pandemic outbreaks like H1N1, SARS, and now SARS-nCoV-2.

[Rdm]

I don't agree with the reason. Other churches socialize at least as much as Mennonites do. Our boys go to a non Mennonite church school. There are always activities, more than most Mennonite activities. They have Saturday breakfast, birthday parties, Wednesday night suppers, basketball games, cross country, holiday activities, outreach activities, preschool, youth group, Sunday School socials, MOPS, several prayer and sick ministries, etc. Do you really think the non Mennonites just sit at home and don't socialize?

The real reason probably has to do with lack of access to health care or lack of good hygiene practices. These are real reasons that lead to poor health outcomes.

There may be as many activities planned or more at non-Mennonite schools, but I'm guessing that at this point, all of those things have been shut down. Non-Mennos, at that point, are more likely to stay home, while Mennonites and Amish will use the extra free time to go visiting.

And apparently, things haven't changed a whole lot over the last hundred years regarding believing that quarantining will help.

According to this paper

In most cases, quarantine was
invoked, public health posters were ordered and schools and places of public gathering
were closed. However, public health measures were a point of contention in Hanover.
Such measures were received amongst Mennonites in Hanover with some ambivalence
and certain measures were not implemented or implemented inconsistently.

In our area,
-2 weeks ago, an Amish wedding was shut down by the health dept., just before the shelter-in-place recommendation, but well after churches and other gatherings of more than 10 people were shut down
-last weekend, my parents' Amish neighbors decided to hold a garage sale
-one of the men at highest risk in our church (last I heard) is stilling driving Amish
-my parents are right in the center of the Mennonite community, and have had a number of people stop in to visit

[Rdm]

I don't agree with the reason. Other churches socialize at least as much as Mennonites do. Our boys go to a non Mennonite church school. There are always activities, more than most Mennonite activities. They have Saturday breakfast, birthday parties, Wednesday night suppers, basketball games, cross country, holiday activities, outreach activities, preschool, youth group, Sunday School socials, MOPS, several prayer and sick ministries, etc. Do you really think the non Mennonites just sit at home and don't socialize?

The real reason probably has to do with lack of access to health care or lack of good hygiene practices. These are real reasons that lead to poor health outcomes.

There may be as many activities planned or more at non-Mennonite schools, but I'm guessing that at this point, all of those things have been shut down. Non-Mennos, at that point, are more likely to stay home, while Mennonites and Amish will use the extra free time to go visiting.

And apparently, things haven't changed a whole lot over the last hundred years regarding believing that quarantining will help.

According to this paper

During the Spanish Flu Epidemic,
"In most cases, quarantine was
invoked, public health posters were ordered and schools and places of public gathering
were closed. However, public health measures were a point of contention in Hanover.
Such measures were received amongst Mennonites in Hanover with some ambivalence
and certain measures were not implemented or implemented inconsistently."

In our area,
-2 weeks ago, an Amish wedding was shut down by the health dept., just before the shelter-in-place recommendation, but well after churches and other gatherings of more than 10 people were shut down
-last weekend, my parents' Amish neighbors decided to hold a garage sale
-one of the men at highest risk in our church (last I heard) is stilling driving Amish
-my parents are right in the center of the Mennonite community, and have had a number of people stop in to visit

[appleman2006]

Again perhaps I am out of the loop but from my observations I think even the OO Amish and Mennonite communities here in Ontario are by and large complying as much as anyone. I may be wrong but from my experience most of the Mennonites in this area would not openly challenge a law like that.

[Josh]

Again perhaps I am out of the loop but from my observations I think even the OO Amish and Mennonite communities here in Ontario are by and large complying as much as anyone. I may be wrong but from my experience most of the Mennonites in this area would not openly challenge a law like that.

From what I'm seeing, it really varies a lot by region - even within the same denomination/conference.

In my home congregation, we are trending more and more towards better compliance. I want everyone to be compliant as possible; however, loudly proclaiming what everyone should do is not a winning formula. Even if 75% of people do, it's hard to get all the youth under control, for example. I've decided to compromise with allowing ourselves to gradually follow government guidelines (which keep changing) and appreciate what our church leaders also are advising us to do.

[puttincomputers]

Slight correction; the Spanish Flu actually originated in China. If you'll read the article, you can see that it spread due to Chinese labourers not being given any opportunity for taking sick leave, so they worked whilst sick in mobile work crews and ended up spreading it across Canada and eventually the U.S.

Huh, new information, how about that! I stand corrected on that point!

[Judas Maccabeus]

Actually they abandoned many of those practices because they were harmful in favor of Western medicine. Then their communist revolution drove out westerners. Since then they have refocused their priorities on making money to funnel into their military.

It's not abandoned where I live. I can take you to streets lined with practitioners and herb vendors. I don't see people dying from it. It won't cure cancer or a broken leg, but I don't think it causes too much damage.

I don’t think hunting rare species like the rhinoceros to extinction counts as “not causing too much damage”. Chinese traditional medicine is pure hogwash, and the tradition of wet markets with wild animals (aka bushmeat) being sold is what has caused the last several of these pandemic outbreaks like H1N1, SARS, and now SARS-nCoV-2.

The stuff you might see in a chinatown is fairly mild compared to the stuff I saw in China. Snakes preserved in Ertog, bear bile, and what was apparently fecal material from a number of species. It is insane, the current premier is proclaiming it is China's gift to the world!

Apparently some research might be published in the west, if it can ever pass editorial review claiming cures from coronavirus from "lung clearing broth." One patient describes it as "the green stuff they made up drink or we had to leave." So much for Nuremberg standards for human volunteers.

J.M.

[Valerie]

Slight correction; the Spanish Flu actually originated in China. If you'll read the article, you can see that it spread due to Chinese labourers not being given any opportunity for taking sick leave, so they worked whilst sick in mobile work crews and ended up spreading it across Canada and eventually the U.S.

Huh, new information, how about that! I stand corrected on that point!

Stick around, you've learned a lot, but God isn't finished with any of is yet. How's your Mom?

[puttincomputers]

Slight correction; the Spanish Flu actually originated in China. If you'll read the article, you can see that it spread due to Chinese labourers not being given any opportunity for taking sick leave, so they worked whilst sick in mobile work crews and ended up spreading it across Canada and eventually the U.S.

Huh, new information, how about that! I stand corrected on that point!

Stick around, you've learned a lot, but God isn't finished with any of is yet. How's your Mom?

She is doing very well! She had to give up home health due to an injury received while preventing an injury to a patient. She is now working for a company that sells medical equipment (including ambulances) to rescue agencies. In the middle of all that business, she is also one of the preachers for a medium sized Pentecostal church in the mountains. The church has been practicing social distancing and even held one of those drive-in church services.