CAM Molestation Issue

[Bootstrap]

If you don’t deal with it, they will go to another place, normally re offend, and repeat the cycle until they are jailed, or otherwise dealt with. These people normally have lots of victims and seldom stop until caught. This is a big problem in the Baptist world. The Houston Chronicle just published a report on the SBC. The number of predators is over 200!

Here:
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/i ... 588038.php

I liked J.D. Greear's response to this: Sexual Abuse, Southern Baptist Churches, and the Gospel. He is the current president of the Southern Baptist Convention.

I am broken over what was revealed today. The abuses described in the Houston Chronicle article are pure evil. I join with countless others who are currently ‘weeping with those who weep’ (Romans 12:15). The voices in this article should be heard as a warning sent from God, calling the church to repent.

As Christians, we are called to expose everything sinful to the light. The survivors in this article have done that—at a personal cost few of us can fathom. We must admit that our failures, as churches, put these survivors in a position where they were forced to stand alone and speak, when we should have been fighting for them. Their courage is exemplary and prophetic. But I mourn that it was necessary for them to show this courage at all. We—leaders in the SBC—should have listened to the warnings of those who tried to call attention to this. I hope we listen now, and I am committed to doing everything possible to ensure we never make these mistakes again.

It’s time for pervasive change. God demands it. Survivors deserve it. We must change how we prepare before abuse (prevention), respond during disclosure (full cooperation with legal authorities), and act after instances of abuse (holistic care). I will pursue every possible avenue to bring the vast spiritual, financial, and organizational resources of the Southern Baptist Convention to bear on stopping predators in our midst. There can be no ambiguity about the church’s responsibility to protect the abused and be a safe place for the vulnerable. The safety of the victims matters more than the reputation of Southern Baptists.

The Baptist doctrine of church autonomy should never be a religious cover for passivity towards abuse. Church autonomy is about freeing the church to do the right thing—to obey Christ—in every situation. It is a heinous error to apply autonomy in a way that enables abuse.

As a denomination, now is a time to mourn and repent. Changes are coming. They must. We cannot just promise to ‘do better’ and expect that to be enough. But today, change begins with feeling the full weight of the problem.

Several useful articles are linked from that page.

• Covering Up Sexual Abuse in Southern Baptist Churches Does Not Protect Jesus’ Reputation
• 700 Is Not the Total Number: How to Get Help
• Southern Baptists and the Day of Reckoning
• The Reality of Sexual Abuse Hits Home: What Happened? What Do We Do Now?

I've learned a lot from reading my way through these. If I were a leader in any religious group, I would take a good look at how other groups have responded, thinking about which responses were spiritually healthy and which were not.

[ragpicker]

A statement from CAM is coming.

Can you give us any idea when?

[Wade]

To me it is simple: A person that does such things is not a brother so it is completely right to report him to the authorities, meanwhile the church or CAM never did this...
The only way I see someone this sick repenting is themselves turning themselves in and asking to spend the rest of life in prison, not run from it. But rather he eventually gets sent out to the mission field?! How ridiculous! That is like being an accomplice to molestation...

[QuietObserver]

Wow. So sad.

A few thoughts...

I think there's a lot of ignorance about the nature of sexual abuse in conservative Mennonites. Sexual abuse is lumped together with other sexual sins. The psychology behind sexual abuse is rejected because psychology is "worldly" and "Jesus is the only answer." The compulsive nature of sex abuse isn't recognized. Hence, strong boundaries aren't created to prevent re-offending.

I think sex abuse is going to force us to take having good leadership more seriously. Church and ministry leaders are walking a tightrope in dealing with sexual abuse. I have to say I'm glad I'm not in their position.

[Neto]

Wow. So sad.

A few thoughts...

I think there's a lot of ignorance about the nature of sexual abuse in conservative Mennonites. Sexual abuse is lumped together with other sexual sins. The psychology behind sexual abuse is rejected because psychology is "worldly" and "Jesus is the only answer." The compulsive nature of sex abuse isn't recognized. Hence, strong boundaries aren't created to prevent re-offending.

I think sex abuse is going to force us to take having good leadership more seriously. Church and ministry leaders are walking a tightrope in dealing with sexual abuse. I have to say I'm glad I'm not in their position.

I would like to hear more of your thoughts regarding having better leadership as a solution for this sin problem. I tend to see that as piling on more 'fear of Man', when we need to have a holy fear of God. But maybe you mean more PASTORING. To that I heartily agree. (But I really am interested in hearing more from the angle of leadership per se, if that's what you literally mean.)

[Wade]

Since I became a Christian just shy of 5 years ago, I have been dealing with the ongoing nightmare of this issue and people and things related to it. My awareness started about 4 1/2 years ago. I tried to bury my head in the sand and remain uninvolved.

Eventually, I left my church. My conviction became too strong that it was wrong to speak nothing and pretend I saw nothing. I spent a while wanting nothing to do with plain people at all. After that time ended, I ended up joining the Holdemans, who don't seem to be involved with this at all.

For my trouble of speaking out against this kind of thing, I've been accused (including on MennoNet by some currently-active posters here) of a litany of evil things. I've been told I have "personal problems" or that I have an "unforgiving spirit". I've been told I need to stay out of business that's not my own. I've been told that, as a divorced man, I have no business ever speaking up about this unless my ex-wife decides to reconcile with me. (And I fully expect some of these people to show up here on MennoNet and attack me for saying this.)

I have begged and pleaded with people in positions of authority, ministers, board members, to please, please take this stuff seriously. The most "action" I ever got was that one resigned being a minister and he and his family quit attending church at all. I don't judge him for that, because for approximately half a year, I did exactly the same thing. Just quit attending a plain church at all.

The rest slandered my name, cancelled attending meetings that once they found out I would show up at them, and treated me like I was the problem.

But much worse than how I was treated was how the victims were treated. Nothing I went through can compare to the horrible things said about them and done to them. Young women and young men - much younger than I - told they are the problem - told it's their fault they "seduced" a much older man. Told that they need to be quiet lest they damage a "wonderful ministry". Told they are unforgiving.

Victims have been told by both perpetrators involved, and ministers and board members in positions of authority, that if they "forgive", they won't press charges. That if they are "forgiving", they won't speak to the police about the truth of what happened. And all of this is quite convenient for the perpetrators who get to escape justice.

Oh, and for the record, my ex-wife is on record and completely willing to talk to anyone involved to let them know she and I are on good terms, and she will also be happy to tell them how she feels about this kind of ongoing abuse and cover-ups happening right where she lives. Whilst she and I don't live the same kind of Christian lives, I do feel at peace that there is this level of reconciliation between us.

I thank God every day for bringing me to the church of God, and into a setting where this kind of thing gets dealt with. I hope that the witness of our church can be inspiration to the rest of you that these issues can be dealt with effectively and out in the open and there is a possibility of reconciliation and healing, but for the unrepentant sinner, judgment by earthly courts is just a foretaste of the eternal damnation that awaits.

Maybe you could share how the Church of God handles this well?

[QuietObserver]

Wow. So sad.

A few thoughts...

I think there's a lot of ignorance about the nature of sexual abuse in conservative Mennonites. Sexual abuse is lumped together with other sexual sins. The psychology behind sexual abuse is rejected because psychology is "worldly" and "Jesus is the only answer." The compulsive nature of sex abuse isn't recognized. Hence, strong boundaries aren't created to prevent re-offending.

I think sex abuse is going to force us to take having good leadership more seriously. Church and ministry leaders are walking a tightrope in dealing with sexual abuse. I have to say I'm glad I'm not in their position.

I would like to hear more of your thoughts regarding having better leadership as a solution for this sin problem. I tend to see that as piling on more 'fear of Man', when we need to have a holy fear of God. But maybe you mean more PASTORING. To that I heartily agree. (But I really am interested in hearing more from the angle of leadership per se, if that's what you literally mean.)

My comment was not well thought out, so I don't have any profound thoughts. I think pastoring is key. Good leaders understand and love people. I've seen too many ineffective leaders who were chosen because of good character or public speaking skills and not because of leadership qualities (not that good character isn't important.)

[Judas Maccabeus]

Since I became a Christian just shy of 5 years ago, I have been dealing with the ongoing nightmare of this issue and people and things related to it. My awareness started about 4 1/2 years ago. I tried to bury my head in the sand and remain uninvolved.

Eventually, I left my church. My conviction became too strong that it was wrong to speak nothing and pretend I saw nothing. I spent a while wanting nothing to do with plain people at all. After that time ended, I ended up joining the Holdemans, who don't seem to be involved with this at all.

For my trouble of speaking out against this kind of thing, I've been accused (including on MennoNet by some currently-active posters here) of a litany of evil things. I've been told I have "personal problems" or that I have an "unforgiving spirit". I've been told I need to stay out of business that's not my own. I've been told that, as a divorced man, I have no business ever speaking up about this unless my ex-wife decides to reconcile with me. (And I fully expect some of these people to show up here on MennoNet and attack me for saying this.)

I have begged and pleaded with people in positions of authority, ministers, board members, to please, please take this stuff seriously. The most "action" I ever got was that one resigned being a minister and he and his family quit attending church at all. I don't judge him for that, because for approximately half a year, I did exactly the same thing. Just quit attending a plain church at all.

The rest slandered my name, cancelled attending meetings that once they found out I would show up at them, and treated me like I was the problem.

But much worse than how I was treated was how the victims were treated. Nothing I went through can compare to the horrible things said about them and done to them. Young women and young men - much younger than I - told they are the problem - told it's their fault they "seduced" a much older man. Told that they need to be quiet lest they damage a "wonderful ministry". Told they are unforgiving.

Victims have been told by both perpetrators involved, and ministers and board members in positions of authority, that if they "forgive", they won't press charges. That if they are "forgiving", they won't speak to the police about the truth of what happened. And all of this is quite convenient for the perpetrators who get to escape justice.

Oh, and for the record, my ex-wife is on record and completely willing to talk to anyone involved to let them know she and I are on good terms, and she will also be happy to tell them how she feels about this kind of ongoing abuse and cover-ups happening right where she lives. Whilst she and I don't live the same kind of Christian lives, I do feel at peace that there is this level of reconciliation between us.

I thank God every day for bringing me to the church of God, and into a setting where this kind of thing gets dealt with. I hope that the witness of our church can be inspiration to the rest of you that these issues can be dealt with effectively and out in the open and there is a possibility of reconciliation and healing, but for the unrepentant sinner, judgment by earthly courts is just a foretaste of the eternal damnation that awaits.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt. That denial can destroy a church or christian organization.

[Josh]

Wow. So sad.

A few thoughts...

I think there's a lot of ignorance about the nature of sexual abuse in conservative Mennonites. Sexual abuse is lumped together with other sexual sins. The psychology behind sexual abuse is rejected because psychology is "worldly" and "Jesus is the only answer." The compulsive nature of sex abuse isn't recognized. Hence, strong boundaries aren't created to prevent re-offending.

Psychiatrists and “worldly science” are completely welcomed if it means prescribing Mennonite women (often abuse victims) with antidepressants, anxiety meds, etc so they can continue to be good obedient wives and mothers.

There’s no worry at all about “strong boundaries” to make it hard for seekers to come into a Mennonite culture, nor concern about “strong boundaries” that make it harder for young Mennonite men and women to get to know each other socially, etc

So I don’t really buy that.

I think sex abuse is going to force us to take having good leadership more seriously. Church and ministry leaders are walking a tightrope in dealing with sexual abuse. I have to say I'm glad I'm not in their position.

Not sure why it’s a tightrope.

It’s obvious in the Bible that those who do such things are hell bound, as are those who condone or promote the people who do them (see Romans 1).

[Wade]

Wow. So sad.

A few thoughts...

I think there's a lot of ignorance about the nature of sexual abuse in conservative Mennonites. Sexual abuse is lumped together with other sexual sins. The psychology behind sexual abuse is rejected because psychology is "worldly" and "Jesus is the only answer." The compulsive nature of sex abuse isn't recognized. Hence, strong boundaries aren't created to prevent re-offending.

I think sex abuse is going to force us to take having good leadership more seriously. Church and ministry leaders are walking a tightrope in dealing with sexual abuse. I have to say I'm glad I'm not in their position.

I would like to hear more of your thoughts regarding having better leadership as a solution for this sin problem. I tend to see that as piling on more 'fear of Man', when we need to have a holy fear of God. But maybe you mean more PASTORING. To that I heartily agree. (But I really am interested in hearing more from the angle of leadership per se, if that's what you literally mean.)

My comment was not well thought out, so I don't have any profound thoughts. I think pastoring is key. Good leaders understand and love people. I've seen too many ineffective leaders who were chosen because of good character or public speaking skills and not because of leadership qualities (not that good character isn't important.)

I have heard a few Mennonites say if a recovered alcoholic walks into a bar he isn't showing repentance by putting himself there again. So part of understanding people and sin is understanding the offender would welcome never putting himself in a situation to be alone with children again if he is repentant. Ignorance for anyone who knows scripture is absolutely no excuse.

I tell my children not to go near enough to touch the woodstove. Not because I am harsh but because I do love them. I believe that is part of being a loving leader.
I'm not saying dealing with any of this is easy by any sort, but if someone can't relate any of this with how to handle sexual abuse; then in my opinion they have no place as a leader in the first place.