The CAM scandal links and assorted other topics thread

[ohio jones]

How does one respond to the charge that CAM is the golden calf of the Amish/Mennonite church? The golden calf is what Israel worshiped and gave its wealth towards. "Since we have the golden calf, we can do no wrong, God is with us."

Israel didn't want to get rid of its golden calf, they tried to justify its existence instead.

I would be far more likely to view a $60 million investment fund offering unusually high rates of return as a golden calf than I would CAM.

How would you view a $3.7 billion family of investment funds with a track record of above market rates of return?

[Pelerin]

CAM’s problem is being a $100 million institution that lacks proper administration, oversight, and accountability.

That makes it very attractive to evil people who want to subvert it for their own ends.

The solution is not to just keep giving more money to the institution. Why can’t we federate CAM and turn it into a consortium of many different, smaller institutions with lots and lots of oversight and no big pot of money where sociopaths can run and hide?

Smaller mission projects are much more easily—and often are—dominated by a few large personalities, perhaps the founder or a major donor. If someone doesn’t like the way it’s run for whatever reason, it’s usually easier to move off and start a new thing. And even if they do stick around and successfully push for oversight, it’s just as easy for the problem to move on and set up their own shop.

CAM has a lot of stakeholders that all feel they have a stake in the 100 million dollars CAM spends each year. To this point, CAM has gotten so big because those stakeholders trust them to run things right and CAM has built that trust by being organized, communicative, and financially transparent. In that regard, they are miles ahead of most other Mennonite missions. There are unique challenges and pitfalls of large organizations, but if CAM failed in oversight and accountability, it was not because of their size.

I doubt Jeriah chose CAM because of its resources—I doubt he planned to return to his sin at all. Somewhere else he might have expected more relative power and fewer people to look over his shoulder, and he might not have been caught at all. And if he had been at any one of the smaller missions in Haiti, it wouldn’t have made nearly as big a splash in the Mennonite world.

[TruthSeeker]

I think they are moving toward a solution, it would go far better for them if they got outside help. I am praying that they do.

J.M.

The need to utilize skilled medical services (vs merely looking to a Christian organization or church to set a broken leg) is realized and practiced without hesitation. However, there appears to be a reluctance to embracing the equally necessary obligation of recruiting appropriately trained professional investigative services to offer impartial insights into an intangible kind of brokenness that lasts a lifetime.

[Judas Maccabeus]

How does one respond to the charge that CAM is the golden calf of the Amish/Mennonite church? The golden calf is what Israel worshiped and gave its wealth towards. "Since we have the golden calf, we can do no wrong, God is with us."

Israel didn't want to get rid of its golden calf, they tried to justify its existence instead.

I would be far more likely to view a $60 million investment fund offering unusually high rates of return as a golden calf than I would CAM.

How would you view a $3.7 billion family of investment funds with a track record of above market rates of return?

Size of Eventide funds? He has been at it almost entirely in an up market. I’ll have more to say when they weather their first recession.

J.M.

[Sienna]

Where do the Charity groups fall on the Mennonite spectrum? Moderate-Conservative? Progressive-Conservative? I'm wondering because my former church which falls under Progressive-Conservative was really into Bill Gothard's teachings for a while. From some of the things I heard at Sharon Mennonite Bible Institute's Family Week it seems like Gothard's teachings had crept into a number of churches. I don't know what group everyone who attended Family Week fell into but a lot of them seem like they would have fallen under the Progressive-Conservative label.

I do know that the former administrator of SMBI (V. Yoder) was (at least at one time) a devoted follower and strong teacher of Bill Gothard-ism. It strongly influenced the students who passed through the school in those years, some of whom I was very close to. Not sure where the school is now or where V.Yoder is today on those issues, but he was very strong on the authority principles Gothard taught.

I've always found it interesting that my father very much enjoyed learning new things and listening to various speakers, but after hearing Gothard speak and looking through the "book," he was not excited and even discouraged us from going to the seminars. He was not able to articulate exactly why, just that some things he taught were "off base." I'm grateful. My spouse and I attended a seminar for a bit after I was married. At the time, we were struggling through infertility. We went up to speak with one of the "renowned" speakers who on one hand somehow made the infertility something negative about us since "children are a heritage," then proceeded to tell us we were in the wrong to continue praying for children since that meant we had not given up our "rights." We didn't finish the seminar and never went back to another one. I realized my father was right, it was twisted theology and spiritual abuse at its finest, with the markings of a cult. And yes, a finely cloaked prosperity gospel.

[Sienna]

The Charity movement was full of leaders and members with shelves stocked with IBLP books and attending ATI.

I had someone a few years ago tell me there is no way Gothard actually did what he was accused of - despite his own board removing him, calling the police on him to get him to leave their meetings, and hundreds of accusers, including one who is a personal real life friend of mine.

Nope, they still think him and his teachings are A-OK.

They took the same position with Jeriah and now again in regards to Harold Herr! .... He could not have done these atrocities.... in spite of the fact his own son as a professional speaks to the horror of his childhood.... and people other than family have serious red flags.... and missionaries are gravely concerned about things that surfaced in Haiti.

This willful denial on multiple levels speaks volumes! Pay attention to the people/groups who align and protect the predator![/quote]


What makes Anabaptists so gullible to these kinds of teachings? Is it those who are uneducated and looking for more, or what is it?

[I Timothy]

CAM is not a golden calf...nor is it an evil empire.

I think some leaders at CAM messed up regarding vetting and responding to charges of sexual abuse within its ranks, and then other CAM leaders underestimated the transparency, accountability and urgency needed to set things right and regain broken trust. I think CAM is a reflection of its larger Conservative Anabaptist culture in that regard. These are issues that absolutely must be addressed for the protection of victims, for our witness, and for the cause of Christ. That's the scope of it. Not more - not less.

But also remember, CAM does wonderful work for Jesus. I've been a part of it - seen it's results first hand. Through CAM, hundreds of committed Christians around the world are empowering the poor, teaching the uneducated, feeding the hungry, healing the sick, evangelizing - all in the precious name of Jesus! And thousands of good-hearted donors are supporting these efforts. CAM is part of the work of Christ, not against it. I don't think you tear a house down because the furnace is broken. By all means, quick, fix the furnace before more damage occurs...but keep investing in the house so it can do what it was meant to do!

I am not sure that I would call making a boy choose between sex abuse or food an example of empowerment. Sounds more like grooming or paternalism. Are all CAM programs like this? No. But these are issues that the management failed to identify and to have a system of checks and balances. This is called a lack of institutional control.

CAM has separated itself from the work of the body of Christ, they are separating themselves from other Christians. They think they are the body of Christ and those who are outside CA circles are "worldly unbelievers". Maybe some humility in engaging the body of Christ by bringing in an organization like GRACE would help it grow. Then again it makes us wonder what CAM is really trying to hide.

A better illustration is that the furnace decided it could heat better if it was outside the house. What gain is there in running a furnace outside the house? The heat is quickly lost because it is not part of the house. Would you keep running gas to a furnace that is not connected to the house?

[Judas Maccabeus]

CAM is not a golden calf...nor is it an evil empire.

I think some leaders at CAM messed up regarding vetting and responding to charges of sexual abuse within its ranks, and then other CAM leaders underestimated the transparency, accountability and urgency needed to set things right and regain broken trust. I think CAM is a reflection of its larger Conservative Anabaptist culture in that regard. These are issues that absolutely must be addressed for the protection of victims, for our witness, and for the cause of Christ. That's the scope of it. Not more - not less.

But also remember, CAM does wonderful work for Jesus. I've been a part of it - seen it's results first hand. Through CAM, hundreds of committed Christians around the world are empowering the poor, teaching the uneducated, feeding the hungry, healing the sick, evangelizing - all in the precious name of Jesus! And thousands of good-hearted donors are supporting these efforts. CAM is part of the work of Christ, not against it. I don't think you tear a house down because the furnace is broken. By all means, quick, fix the furnace before more damage occurs...but keep investing in the house so it can do what it was meant to do!

I am not sure that I would call making a boy choose between sex abuse or food an example of empowerment. Sounds more like grooming or paternalism. Are all CAM programs like this? No. But these are issues that the management failed to identify and to have a system of checks and balances. This is called a lack of institutional control.

CAM has separated itself from the work of the body of Christ, they are separating themselves from other Christians. They think they are the body of Christ and those who are outside CA circles are "worldly unbelievers". Maybe some humility in engaging the body of Christ by bringing in an organization like GRACE would help it grow. Then again it makes us wonder what CAM is really trying to hide.

A better illustration is that the furnace decided it could heat better if it was outside the house. What gain is there in running a furnace outside the house? The heat is quickly lost because it is not part of the house. Would you keep running gas to a furnace that is not connected to the house?

What you are doing here is presenting an outlier as the norm. Stating that CAM has “separated itself from the work of the body of Christ “ is a gross exaggeration. If never having a worker that falls into sin is the required criteria, there is NO work of the body of Christ. No group could ever meet that standard over the arc of time.

While I would clearly recommend calling in outside help, the above is a bit over the top.

J.M.

[I Timothy]

What you are doing here is presenting an outlier as the norm. Stating that CAM has “separated itself from the work of the body of Christ “ is a gross exaggeration. If never having a worker that falls into sin is the required criteria, there is NO work of the body of Christ. No group could ever meet that standard over the arc of time.

While I would clearly recommend calling in outside help, the above is a bit over the top.

J.M.

There is a difference between lone wolf (ie JM) and management allowing a lone wolf run lose. Management knowing about JM and HH is a game changer.

I really have not seen CAM or its supporting churches do a lot to work within the Christian community at large. In fact sermons I listen to blast all other forms of Christianity for being "worldly". The CA movement wants to be the third way, it is not trying to build ties with other church groups. Again, what disqualified GRACE from being called? They aren't Mennonite/Amish.

[Judas Maccabeus]

What you are doing here is presenting an outlier as the norm. Stating that CAM has “separated itself from the work of the body of Christ “ is a gross exaggeration. If never having a worker that falls into sin is the required criteria, there is NO work of the body of Christ. No group could ever meet that standard over the arc of time.

While I would clearly recommend calling in outside help, the above is a bit over the top.

J.M.

There is a difference between lone wolf (ie JM) and management allowing a lone wolf run lose. Management knowing about JM and HH is a game changer.

I really have not seen CAM or its supporting churches do a lot to work within the Christian community at large. In fact sermons I listen to blast all other forms of Christianity for being "worldly". The CA movement wants to be the third way, it is not trying to build ties with other church groups. Again, what disqualified GRACE from being called? They aren't Mennonite/Amish.

Do you know this for a fact, or is it just an assumption?

I suspect the latter, unless you are actually sitting in their board meetings.

J.M.