Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

[NedFlanders]

I don't think that's fair.
I've known of very faithful Baptist people and churches.
Perhaps Joy on this forum is not reading this thread.
She comes from a very faithful Baptist Church.
She has been involved in spreading the Gospel all her adult life- she's been involved in prison ministry for decades. Her parents started a school to reach children, in South Carolina. She is one of 5 children. Her brother has spent decades with his family in Africa as missionaries. Joy and her sister denied the pleasures of life to reach the lost. It hurts to see attacks against Baptists (I am not one, but it was the Baptists that led my very worldly grandmother to Christ. She became a Christian late in life but truly converted, and her conversion led to get alcoholic brothers true conversion & his was a real testimony as well.

I understand where MrBrilliam is coming from as my former Amish friend shares his same frustration and he HAS spent decades spreading the Gospel and has a heart for the lost- he is so SICK of what he calls "churchianity" & says Holmes County is the most "mixed up Christianity" in the world.

But I do believe MrBrilliam, like others I've met like him, who desires his branch of Christianity to come out of slumber & get in the trenches with those in the highways & byways and actually care about souls more ghan appearing righteous, his words will fall on deaf ears.

I guess it frustrated me to see the rest of denominations painted with a broad brush. Until you actually visit every Baptist Church, you cannot possibly know so while you can accuse him of throwing stones, realize you're throwing them as if you know-

Fair isn't the point. I've just stated reality. Notice I've said "In my experience," so you are free to stop accusing others of what you are in fact doing.

Fair enough but there are thousands of Baptist congregations and so why attack them based on your experience? By the way, I have defended Anabaptists to their critics for 17 years and I do share what I glean from them. Even if I ended up elsewhere, I know they want you to be in full agreement to join, which I cannot be

I don't have an answer for your question since I didn't attack them.

[ken_sylvania]

No EO doesn't interpret loving your enemies the same way as others when it comes to protecting your own land, thank the Lord they had a "free," land to flee to because America fought for it. So it can work to Anabaptists advantage.

Are you claiming that the Anabaptists had a "free" land to flee to (USA) because America fought for it?

[ken_sylvania]

If some have gone astray, look in your own camp- my former Amish friend updates me on bishops arrested for molestations, suicides, incest bring discovered, etc There is much "cover up".

Do you and your friend find such discussions to be spiritually upbuilding and do they help you draw closer to God? I would feel rather perverted if I were to start tracking such things among other denominations and then discussing them regularly with people who are neither part of the problem nor part of the solution.

[Josh]

Well I am not EO, but they have the faith & interpretations of original Apostles and those who followed.

No, they don't. There is no evidence to support EO's claims, particularly compared to Roman Catholics who claim the exact same authority.

If some have gone astray, look in your own camp- my former Amish friend updates me on bishops arrested for molestations, suicides, incest bring discovered, etc

There are no Amish or other plain Anabaptists who claim that sexual immorality is OK as part of official doctrine. These things are considered sins. You may want to start trying to get some of your news from someone besides one ex-Amish person who probably has an axe to grind.

There is much "cover up". No EO doesn't interpret loving your enemies the same way as others when it comes to protecting your own land, thank the Lord they had a "free," land to flee to because America fought for it. So it can work to Anabaptists advantage.

Valerie, are you aware a war is going on right now between two Orthodox countries with the full blessing of the Orthodox churches in both countries? Do you think Russia is "protecting" their land by invading Ukraine and dragging out this war for over two years? Do you think Ukraine is also "protecting" their land by fighting back? Do you think it makes sense for the Eastern Orthodox church to bless both armies before going out to battle to kill each other?

The reason Russian Mennonites had to leave Ukraine in the first place is because the Eastern Orthodox Czar kicked them out because they demanded they be willing to perform military service. Do you think it was right that the EOs did that?

[Josh]

I see several problems with this critique of pragmatism. First, it presumes to know the mind of God for the church. God will build and grow his church, but he will also discipline, cleanse and purify it. We can't know exactly what he is doing right now. Second, it presumes to know how to grow the church, i.e. what metrics to use to measure growth. This is like the children of Israel trying to storm the promised land after God turned them back into the desert. Just because a promised land exists does not mean we are to seize it by any means or as soon as possible. This calls for wisdom and faithfulness.

It is rather common that people in Anabaptist circles get influenced by megachurchianity and then think what we need to do is somehow follow more of the megachurch formula.

Despite the fact that megachurches around me keep facing budget shortfalls and declining attendance (the local "chain" of megachurches has had attendance drop off 40%). It is an expensive model that is based on moving into a new area, trying to grow quickly, and really gives no thought at all to where it will be in 50 or 100 years.

Meanwhile, in Akron one of the original megachurches built in the 1930s sits vacant - Akron Baptist Temple, which pioneered streaming church services on the TV and radio, the first in the country to do so, finally gave up after years of declining attendance and sold their building to a black church, The Word Church, in 2019. COVID hit them hard and they spent a lot of money on rehabilitating the building and trying to run programs like sports ministries, but last year finally gave up - PPP funds helped but those have also run out - and put the building for sale again. There have been no buyers. Now the city wants to assess a fine of $1.3 million to pay to have the building demolished. It is currently inhabited by squatters and drug dealers.

This kind of suburban "churn" of the evangelical megachurch model doesn't really do much at all to spread the gospel. Overall, the largest growing religious demographic in America is "evangelical but doesn't attend church". We don't need more of that.

[Ernie]

My list was not meant to be comprehensive, and there are churches in the DFW exurban metro area.

MCUSA churches? There are a couple of those.

The greater DFW metro area is the size of New Jersey and has a population north of 8 million. And yet I suspect you are including places like the Pilgrim church in Grandview which is maybe 40 miles south of downtown, completely outside the DFW metro area, and completely rural. https://maps.app.goo.gl/5VoB6ZkU2DKNnaVKA?g_st=ic

As I said earlier, people in Dallas are completely comfortable driving an hour to do basically anything. This isn’t a big deal.

Except that they aren't! (at least not most)
I am currently in communication with a family in Ft. Worth that doesn't want to drive to Grandview. They want a church started in Ft. Worth.

[Ernie]

Another place we aren’t generally found too much, is in coastal fishing towns.

Yes! Several years ago we took our family on a trip through the maritime provinces in eastern Canada. As we visited the fishing village all along the coast, I wondered what Plain Anabaptist culture would look like if early on it had been comprised of fisherman instead of farmers and tradesman. Imagine how different the sermon illustrations would be, the prayer meetings for fishermen on the seas, and a push for buying up land along the coasts in order to maintain a godly separated heritage.

[Josh]

Except that they aren't! (at least not most)
I am currently in communication with a family in Ft. Worth that doesn't want to drive to Grandview. They want a church started in Ft. Worth.

I would doubt the commitment of people to being able to start and sustain a new church who can't commit to driving a 34 minutes to church on Sunday.

[Josh]

Another place we aren’t generally found too much, is in coastal fishing towns.

Yes! Several years ago we took our family on a trip through the maritime provinces in eastern Canada. As we visited the fishing village all along the coast, I wondered what Plain Anabaptist culture would look like if early on it had been comprised of fisherman instead of farmers and tradesman. Imagine how different the sermon illustrations would be, the prayer meetings for fishermen on the seas, and a push for buying up land along the coasts in order to maintain a godly separated heritage.

Flemish and Frisian Anabaptists were coastal peoples, although they tended to farm right up to the coasts and were less concerned with fishing.

[Ernie]

Except that they aren't! (at least not most)
I am currently in communication with a family in Ft. Worth that doesn't want to drive to Grandview. They want a church started in Ft. Worth.

I would doubt the commitment of people to being able to start and sustain a new church who can't commit to driving a 34 minutes to church on Sunday.

It is not about commitment. It is about seeing the kingdom of God grow and flourish in various pockets around Dallas / Ft. Worth.