Meanwhile, in France

When it just doesn't fit anywhere else.
Szdfan

Re: Meanwhile, in France

Post by Szdfan »

barnhart wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:58 am Back to the French opening ceremonies for the Olympics, I see several layers of meaning.
1. The most surface level is the Olympic games are pagan, not Christian. It should be no great surprise when pagan values surface.
2. I suspect the cover story provided by the committee is partially true. It likely was initially a recreation of a mythical pagan feast but someone thought it would be clever to include elements from the last supper painting and get a two for the price of one reaction. For which they were rewarded. Cultural conservatives cooperatively provided the reaction required to draw attention to an otherwise forgettable event.
3. On a slightly deeper level, one could ask if this particular portrayal of the feast of Dionysus is more of a copy of the Last Supper painting than the Last Supper painting was a copy of earlier paintings of the feast of Dionysus. Michaelangelo's composition made little effort to hew toward the historical scene, rather incorporating imagery from his contemporary society (European faces and architecture) and from earlier paintings of pagan myth (seating on one side of the table for feast of excess and display). Possibly he was making a statement about his own society and it's values by putting it in a biblical concept. If so, this is similar to the current French re-creation which injects current values like pleasure, individualism and gender fluidity into the "biblical" scene and also back into the pagan context. I don't approve, but it is clever on some level because it forces a false dichotomy, accept current values or hypocritically reject them for "Christian" culture markers which have roots in pagan myth.
4. On the deepest level, they pay an unknowing compliment to Christianity by illustrating the root of Christianity is a king who was mocked and disrespected, did not retaliate and asked his followers to do the same. They confirm our identity as sheep. The wolves are those who fight back at insult.
There's another layer here -- the power of the camera to shape perspective. A broader view of the same scene --

Image

The "table" in front of the tableau wasn't a table, it was a runway with a fashion show on it. There are people sitting and standing on both sides of the runway. However, the picture that caused outrage and comparisons to the "Last Supper" was from one angle.
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barnhart
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Re: Meanwhile, in France

Post by barnhart »

I think they were trying to do several things at once and the last supper imagery was tossed in casually. But I do think it was intentional, not an accident.
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HondurasKeiser

Re: Meanwhile, in France

Post by HondurasKeiser »

barnhart wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 11:33 am I think they were trying to do several things at once and the last supper imagery was tossed in casually. But I do think it was intentional, not an accident.
I think the other facet to think about is that for most Christians, the Last Supper was the First Eucharist and the Eucharist is a partaking of Jesus' flesh and blood. In this tableaus what was on offer for the feast was not the Body and the Blood but rather Dionysus. I agree that there are layers of meaning here and for me, this last piece is the deepest. Dionysus, the Bacchanal is what is at the center of our culture and what we feast upon.
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ohio jones

Re: Meanwhile, in France

Post by ohio jones »

HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 12:31 pm
barnhart wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 11:33 am I think they were trying to do several things at once and the last supper imagery was tossed in casually. But I do think it was intentional, not an accident.
I think the other facet to think about is that for most Christians, the Last Supper was the First Eucharist and the Eucharist is a partaking of Jesus' flesh and blood. In this tableaus what was on offer for the feast was not the Body and the Blood but rather Dionysus. I agree that there are layers of meaning here and for me, this last piece is the deepest. Dionysus, the Bacchanal is what is at the center of our culture and what we feast upon.
The bread and wine of pagan excess rather than the bread and wine of holy remembrance.
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RZehr

Re: Meanwhile, in France

Post by RZehr »

I don’t know where I got this quote. But in 2018 I wrote it down, and just stumbled across it in my notes tonight.
In 1935, the founder of the modern Olympics, Baron Pierre de Coubertin, noted: "The first essential characteristic of the modern Olympics is that, like the Olympics of ancient Greece, they constitute a religion."
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temporal1
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2026 Re: Meanwhile, in France

Post by temporal1 »

2026 Football / Soccer :-|

‘Paris is BURNING’: Over 750 arrested with hooliganism ‘gone wild’ and 'third-world behaviours' / -16min
'What we saw last night was simply barbarism.’
Following Paris Saint-Germain’s victory in the Champions League final, widespread rioting, looting, and arson broke out across Paris, resulting in over 750 arrests, one confirmed death, and hundreds of injuries. GB News Presenter Alex Armstrong unpacks the stark contrast between these destructive riots and the peaceful sports celebrations.

The studio panel debates whether this unrest is driven by football hooliganism, deep-seated political and economic disaffection within isolated migrant suburbs, or cultural tensions tied to mass immigration.

0:00 - Riots break out across Paris after PSG win

0:52 - Vehicles torched and local businesses destroyed

1:28 - Contrast: Peaceful football celebrations

1:59 - Barbarism vs. Traditional civil disobedience

3:05 - Panel Analysis

3:24 - Mapping the outbreak: Football Fans vs. Suburban Disaffection

4:32 - Is the Paris unrest inherently political?

5:53 - (AD) ExpressVPN

6:46 - Evaluating the Arsenal Victory Parade in North London

8:22 - The role of mass migration and cultural integration in France

8:58 - Prediction: Will this level of violence reach Britain?

9:22 - Dispersal and concentration of refugees across the UK and France

10:20 - Breaking News: 16 Arrests and stabbing at Arsenal Parade

10:52 - Comparative Analysis: The policing of riots in France and the UK

11:25 - Historical Context

12:15 - Can mass deportation policies ever be legally executed?

13:28 - Political Will: Would the civil service block immigration reform?

14:45 - Public Safety in Europe


i’m unsure about what’s going on in Europe.
There seems to be similar rioting going on in Brussels, Italy, Germany, England, i’m not sure if they’re connected with Paris at all.
Horrible (even deadly) rioting over big soccer matches isn’t unusual. But? ..
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joshuabgood
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Re: Meanwhile, in France

Post by joshuabgood »

Seems like maybe some yellow journalism. I was in Paris the last three days and hit most of the tourist areas and rode the mass transit. It was really quiet and peaceful.
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temporal1
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Re: Meanwhile, in France

Post by temporal1 »

joshuabgood wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2026 1:45 am Seems like maybe some yellow journalism. I was in Paris the last three days and hit most of the tourist areas and rode the mass transit. It was really quiet and peaceful.
i hope so. i have friends planning on Paris this summer.

This was reported 7 days ago:

BBC / Hundreds arrested and dozens of police injured after Champions League riots in France
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0r2ejg1w9xo

i’m pretty sure tourist-centric Europe is prepared to clean up quickly ..

we visited Switzerland (years ago) our room was right above a main street in Laussanne, one night, into the night, there was a big celebration, it was PACKED with party-goers, drinking, confetti, debris everywhere, into the morning hours ..

we woke early the next morning. NO TRACE of the night’s excitement. clean as a whistle, back to normal.

Just to say, after a few days, the Paris incident might not have been noticeable.
There are many reports (which means little, of itself.)
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Valerie
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Re: 2026 Re: Meanwhile, in France

Post by Valerie »

temporal1 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2026 12:31 am 2026 Football / Soccer :-|

‘Paris is BURNING’: Over 750 arrested with hooliganism ‘gone wild’ and 'third-world behaviours' / -16min
'What we saw last night was simply barbarism.’
Following Paris Saint-Germain’s victory in the Champions League final, widespread rioting, looting, and arson broke out across Paris, resulting in over 750 arrests, one confirmed death, and hundreds of injuries. GB News Presenter Alex Armstrong unpacks the stark contrast between these destructive riots and the peaceful sports celebrations.

The studio panel debates whether this unrest is driven by football hooliganism, deep-seated political and economic disaffection within isolated migrant suburbs, or cultural tensions tied to mass immigration.

0:00 - Riots break out across Paris after PSG win

0:52 - Vehicles torched and local businesses destroyed

1:28 - Contrast: Peaceful football celebrations

1:59 - Barbarism vs. Traditional civil disobedience

3:05 - Panel Analysis

3:24 - Mapping the outbreak: Football Fans vs. Suburban Disaffection

4:32 - Is the Paris unrest inherently political?

5:53 - (AD) ExpressVPN

6:46 - Evaluating the Arsenal Victory Parade in North London

8:22 - The role of mass migration and cultural integration in France

8:58 - Prediction: Will this level of violence reach Britain?

9:22 - Dispersal and concentration of refugees across the UK and France

10:20 - Breaking News: 16 Arrests and stabbing at Arsenal Parade

10:52 - Comparative Analysis: The policing of riots in France and the UK

11:25 - Historical Context

12:15 - Can mass deportation policies ever be legally executed?

13:28 - Political Will: Would the civil service block immigration reform?

14:45 - Public Safety in Europe


i’m unsure about what’s going on in Europe.
There seems to be similar rioting going on in Brussels, Italy, Germany, England, i’m not sure if they’re connected with Paris at all.
Horrible (even deadly) rioting over big soccer matches isn’t unusual. But? ..
Scripturally and prophetically speaking, the whole world will be in unrest and need a (false) savior THE Antichrist (not just the many antichrists since the Church began, but the final -
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ohio jones
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Re: Meanwhile, in France

Post by ohio jones »

temporal1 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2026 8:27 am we woke early the next morning. NO TRACE of the night’s excitement. clean as a whistle, back to normal.

Just to say, after a few days, the Paris incident might not have been noticeable.
No, Paris is not that efficient nor as clean. If someone wants to see the Eiffel and the Louvre, sure, go to Paris for a day or two. But there are much nicer cities to visit.
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