Charlie Kirk Encounters NT Focused Student

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
temporal1
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Re: Charlie Kirk Encounters NT Focused Student

Post by temporal1 »

GaryK wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2026 9:06 pm https://www.
I found this 2.5 minute exchange fascinating. It appears the student understood some important and foundational beliefs about Jesus and the NT era.
i’d heard of CK before he was assassinated, but never listened to him, i didn’t know of his work. i’m still loosely learnng as i view occasional references, like this one in your OP. Good example ..

i’d sure appreciate seeing much more of this 2 minute out take, these strike me as 2 informed young men with lots in common, esp seeking Truth. The clip reflects almost a competition, which is sad, i’m pretty sure not intended by either man, and likely resulted from too short time to communicate and probably the crowd, pressuring for speed, as well as other questions.

They seemed genuinely interested in each other’s thoughts. And, more informed than average.

Very interesting! - Too short! - More! More! :D

i presume inspiring others to learn and seek more about Truth was a central focus of CK, in his unique ways that reached lots of people. Esp young people on campuses where, if anything, seeking Truth is discouraged.

i believe learning about faith is a journey, and believers are tasked with helping one another, encouraging, not destroying one another, like a video game. :)

1 Thess 5:11
https://biblehub.com/1_thessalonians/5-11.htm
10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him.

11Therefore encourage and build one another up, just as you are already doing.

12But we ask you, brothers, to acknowledge those who work diligently among you, who preside over you in the Lord and give you instruction.…
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i’m perfectly comfortable with an older, wiser, more docile Trump.

”Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.” Robert Martz
JohnH
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Re: Charlie Kirk Encounters NT Focused Student

Post by JohnH »

Ernie wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2026 6:31 pm
JohnH wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2026 4:26 pm They freely quoted from the OT and apocryphal books. There wasn’t a sharp distinction between two dispensations.
I disagree. The majority clearly articulated how the Old Testament ended and the New Testament is now in effect. They also show how the New realties supercede the old. Here is a sampling.

Conrad Grebel — “Neither do they use worldly sword or war, since all killing has ceased with them—unless, indeed, we would still be of the old law.”
Conrad Grebel — “They must reach the Fatherland of eternal rest, not by slaying their bodily enemies but by mortifying their spiritual enemies.”
Conrad Grebel — “The gospel and its adherents are not to be protected by the sword, nor are they thus to protect themselves.”
Michael Sattler / Swiss Brethren — “The sword is ordained of God outside the perfection of Christ.”
Michael Sattler / Swiss Brethren — “In the Law the sword was ordained for the punishment of the wicked and for their death.”
Michael Sattler / Swiss Brethren — “In the perfection of Christ, however, only the ban is used for a warning and for the excommunication of the one who has sinned, without putting the flesh to death.”
Michael Sattler / Swiss Brethren — “Christ says to the heathen woman who was taken in adultery, not that one should stone her according to the Law of his Father…but in mercy and forgiveness and warning, to sin no more.”
Michael Sattler / Swiss Brethren — “Christ teaches and commands us to learn of him, for He is meek and lowly in heart.”
Michael Sattler / Swiss Brethren — “The government magistracy is according to the flesh, but the Christian’s is according to the Spirit.”
Michael Sattler / Swiss Brethren — “Their citizenship is in this world, but the Christian’s citizenship is in heaven.”
Michael Sattler / Swiss Brethren — “The weapons of their conflict and war are carnal and against the flesh only, but the Christian’s weapons are spiritual.”
Michael Sattler / Swiss Brethren — “The worldlings are armed with steel and iron, but the Christians are armed with the armor of God.”
Michael Sattler / Swiss Brethren — “In the Law it is commanded to be performed in God’s Name, but only in truth, not falsely.”
Michael Sattler / Swiss Brethren — “Christ, who teaches the perfection of the Law, prohibits all swearing to His followers, whether true or false.”
Michael Sattler / Swiss Brethren — “So you see it is for this reason that all swearing is forbidden.”
Bern Anabaptist Conference (1538) — “We grant the Old Testament validity wherever Christ has not suspended it and wherever it agrees with the New.”
Pilgram Marpeck — “In the Old Testament nearly everything was done in a figurative way and experienced in that way.”
Pilgram Marpeck — “For Christians, however, it is quite a different matter.”
Pilgram Marpeck — “A great difference exists between Christians and Abraham’s promise.”
Pilgram Marpeck — “A difference everyone, who can clearly understand the difference between the Old and New Testaments, can easily perceive.”
Pilgram Marpeck — “Like most other things in the Old Testament, circumcision is a figure and image.”
Pilgram Marpeck — “One cannot extrapolate from this promise to Abraham that children are to be baptized.”
Pilgram Marpeck — “The old covenant is merely a covenant of promise.”
Dirk Philips — “Christ Jesus is the spirit and the substance of all the types and figures that have passed away.”
Dirk Philips — Christ is “the end and fulfillment of the law of types, figures and shadows.”
Dirk Philips — Christ is “the beginning of the true substance and completeness.”
Dirk Philips — “All shadows and figures are fulfilled in him.”
Dirk Philips — “All things are changed in Christ and are transfigured and made new by him.”
Dirk Philips — They are “changed from the letter to the Spirit.”
Dirk Philips — They are changed “from the carnal to the real.”
Dirk Philips — They are changed “from the old to the new.”
Dirk Philips — They are changed “from the figure into the true abiding substance.”
Dirk Philips — They are changed “from the transitory to the eternal and heavenly.”
Dirk Philips — “The figures of the old testament must be carefully examined and be understood, not according to human opinion.”
Dirk Philips — “Christ before his death called his disciples—his beloved friends—to him, revealed his words, and declared his will to them.”
Dirk Philips — “Christ Jesus dedicated or established the new testament with his innocent death and precious blood.”
Menno Simons — “All the promises to the fathers, the waiting of the patriarchs, the whole figurative law, and all the predictions of the prophets, are fulfilled in Christ, with Christ, and through Christ.”
Menno Simons — “Moses and his successors, with their iron sword, have served their day, and…Christ has now given us a new command and another sword.”
Menno Simons — “We know and use no other sword than that which Christ himself brought down from heaven.”
Menno Simons — “We shall…leave the armor of David to the carnal Israelites.”
Menno Simons — “The sword of Zerubbabel [we leave] to those who build the temple of Zerubbabel in Jerusalem, which was a figure of them and a shadow of things coming.”
Menno Simons — “We should not understand that the figure of the Old Testament is so applied to the truth of the New Testament, that flesh is understood as referring to flesh.”
Menno Simons — “The figure must answer the truth; the image, the being, and the letter, the Spirit.”
Menno Simons — “A letter of the law of Moses could not be changed till the new Moses, Christ Jesus, came.”
Menno Simons — “If then the letter of the law was so strong, effective and firm…how much more powerful, effectual, firm, and unchangeable is the free law of the Spirit.”
Menno Simons — The law of the Spirit “was given through the Son himself, and confirmed by the blood of the eternal covenant.”
Menno Simons — “If you would appeal to the literal understanding and transactions of Moses and the prophets, then must you also become Jews.”
Menno Simons — Christ “has changed the literal and figurative ceremonies into new, spiritual and abiding substances.”
Menno Simons — “The figures and shadows were…changed into the new and abiding reality.”
Menno Simons — “After it had all been accomplished according to the Scriptures, and all things made new in Christ, he did not then send out the Scribes and Pharisees with Moses’ law, but his disciples with his own doctrine.”
Menno Simons — “Since then all things are new in and through Christ…in the new Testament, are we…directed to those preachers who sit in Christ’s seat.”
Menno Simons — “To swear truly was allowed to the Jews under the law; but the gospel forbids this to Christians.”
Menno Simons — “Moses commanded not to forswear thyself, but I say unto you, Thou shalt not swear at all.”
Menno Simons — “The literal law of Moses…had to remain unchanged until the coming of Christ.”
Menno Simons — “Not a tittle could be changed in all the law of Moses until the new Lawgiver came who was promised by Moses and the prophets, Jesus Christ.”
Menno Simons — “How much more authoritative and unchangeable is the law of Jesus Christ which is free, spiritual, eternal, given through the Son and sealed by His blood!”
Peter Riedemann — “Therefore it is ended, stopped and broken in Christ.”
Peter Riedemann — “He also hath now begun a new regime that is not like the old one and is not supported by the temporal sword.”
Peter Riedemann — “The regime of the Jews, who until then were God’s people, came to an end in Christ, ceased and was taken from them.”
Peter Riedemann — “It is his desire to rule over Christians with his spiritual sword alone.”
Peter Riedemann — “From henceforth the people of God ought no longer to use the temporal sword and rule therewith.”
Peter Riedemann — “[The people of God] ought to be ruled and led by the one Spirit of Christ alone.”
Just so you know, I can also use AI to support my position. I'm not sure cut and pastes from an AI tool are terribly helpful. Sharing the prompt you used to generate this on the other hand, would be.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Charlie Kirk Encounters NT Focused Student

Post by Bootstrap »

JohnH wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2026 4:26 pm They freely quoted from the OT and apocryphal books. There wasn’t a sharp distinction between two dispensations.
I agree that they freely quoted from the OT and apocryphal books, and that they did not speak of dispensations. And the Old Testament was important to their reasoning. But they certainly did not believe we are under Old Testament law.

And they did not believe that the Kingdom of God is synonymous with earthly Kingdoms under the New Covenant. In fact, the relationship between Church and State is one of the clear foundations of Anabaptism - they were breaking from churches that DID see the "Holy Roman Empire" and its successors in a role like that of the Old Testament. Without that distinction, I don't think you really have Anabaptism in any recognizable form. You can also see how that played out between Anabaptist martyrs and the Church-States that executed them.

Several people have given good references to read on the subject. The Pilgram Marpeck article is new to me - much appreciated, OJ!
0 x
1. Are we discussing the topic? Good.
2. Are we going around and around in a fight? Let's stop doing that.
3. Is there some serious wrongdoing or relational injury? Let's address that, probably not in public and certainly not for show.
temporal1
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Re: Charlie Kirk Encounters NT Focused Student

Post by temporal1 »

JohnH wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2026 9:09 am Just so you know, I can also use AI to support my position. I'm not sure cut and pastes from an AI tool are terribly helpful. Sharing the prompt you used to generate this on the other hand, would be.
:-|
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i’m perfectly comfortable with an older, wiser, more docile Trump.

”Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.” Robert Martz
JohnH
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Re: Charlie Kirk Encounters NT Focused Student

Post by JohnH »

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2026 5:04 pm
JohnH wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2026 4:26 pm They freely quoted from the OT and apocryphal books. There wasn’t a sharp distinction between two dispensations.
I agree that they freely quoted from the OT and apocryphal books, and that they did not speak of dispensations. And the Old Testament was important to their reasoning. But they certainly did not believe we are under Old Testament law.

And they did not believe that the Kingdom of God is synonymous with earthly Kingdoms under the New Covenant. In fact, the relationship between Church and State is one of the clear foundations of Anabaptism - they were breaking from churches that DID see the "Holy Roman Empire" and its successors in a role like that of the Old Testament. Without that distinction, I don't think you really have Anabaptism in any recognizable form. You can also see how that played out between Anabaptist martyrs and the Church-States that executed them.

Several people have given good references to read on the subject. The Pilgram Marpeck article is new to me - much appreciated, OJ!
Yes. They viewed us having been given instructions from our lord, leader, king and that we are to follow them. But nothing about God or Jesus changed; he simply gave us instructions to follow. Both the Israelites who were commanded to wipe out the Canaanites were obedient (and the ones who didn’t do so were disobedient); we today are obedient when we follow his instructions to us not to kill, seek vengeance, and so on. I think of it also as “legislation that has been amended”; the law has never gone out of affect, but does some have amendments that have gone into effect.
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temporal1
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Re: Charlie Kirk Encounters NT Focused Student

Post by temporal1 »

i wrote regarding the OP:
.. They seemed genuinely interested in each other’s thoughts. And, more informed than average.

Very interesting! - Too short! - More! More! :D

i presume inspiring others to learn and seek more about Truth was a central focus of CK, in his unique ways that reached lots of people. Esp young people on campuses where, if anything, seeking Truth is discouraged.

i believe learning about faith is a journey, and believers are tasked with helping one another, encouraging, not destroying one another, like a video game. :) ..
To try to add more ..
Understanding faith as a journey is important to me, because of my own challenges, also, after learning Menno Simons, Zwingli, Luther, and others, were all originally devout Catholic priests/monks. As they studied, the Holy Spirit blessed them.

Inspiration is a gift of the Holy Spirit.

The key is seeking. The HS determines time (and place).

In the short OP clip, i see 2 young men, each seeking (yay) .. they’re unfinished, they’re interested in each other’s understanding.
Prayers for the Spirit.
The Holy Spirit plays a vital role in imparting understanding to believers. Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would guide His followers into all truth (John 16:13). The Spirit illuminates the Scriptures, helping believers to understand and apply God's Word in their lives. This divine assistance is essential, as spiritual truths are often beyond human comprehension without the Spirit's guidance.
https://biblehub.com/topical/u/understa ... a_gift.htm
John 16:13 https://biblehub.com/john/16-13.htm
12I still have much to tell you, but you cannot yet bear to hear it.

13However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth.
For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come.

14He will glorify Me by taking from what is Mine and disclosing it to you.…

Charles has passed. i wonder how the other young man is doing?
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i’m perfectly comfortable with an older, wiser, more docile Trump.

”Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.” Robert Martz
Ernie
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Re: Charlie Kirk Encounters NT Focused Student

Post by Ernie »

I'm trying to learn more about Nick, the aerospace student, but am not getting much help from AI. Anybody else have a way to get more information?
1 x
A wee little man can’t say, I’m sorry. A big man owns his mistakes and apologizes.
A wee little man trusts himself and his own discernment. A big man is humble enough to know that he needs the counsel and input of others.
ken_sylvania
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Re: Charlie Kirk Encounters NT Focused Student

Post by ken_sylvania »

Ernie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 04, 2026 11:24 am I'm trying to learn more about Nick, the aerospace student, but am not getting much help from AI. Anybody else have a way to get more information?
Maybe it just needs to remain a mystery... 8-)
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temporal1
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Re: Charlie Kirk Encounters NT Focused Student

Post by temporal1 »

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Sun Oct 04, 2026 12:25 pm
Ernie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 04, 2026 11:24 am I'm trying to learn more about Nick, the aerospace student, but am not getting much help from AI. Anybody else have a way to get more information?
Maybe it just needs to remain a mystery... 8-)
he could be invited to MN, with a username. :)
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i’m perfectly comfortable with an older, wiser, more docile Trump.

”Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.” Robert Martz
Ernie
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Re: Charlie Kirk Encounters NT Focused Student

Post by Ernie »

Here is the longer discussion from which the OP is clipped.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=11k8z2YrByk

How would your apologetic differ or what would you add to what Nick says?
0 x
A wee little man can’t say, I’m sorry. A big man owns his mistakes and apologizes.
A wee little man trusts himself and his own discernment. A big man is humble enough to know that he needs the counsel and input of others.
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