Christian leaders honor golden statue of Trump

[ohio jones]

Well unless I can touch it in person, I'll hold onto my skepticism. There's a lot of trolls rolling around the internet.

Thomas, is that you?

[JohnH]

Maybe the concern is more about the who dedicated and blessed it. There are statues of folks all over, fine not my thing but it does hit me as edging awfully close to a 'form of worship' of our president. And I DID NOT say worship. But these evangelical folks are clearly flirting with the way they are honoring a man.

I know absolutely nothing about Pastor Mark Burns. I have enough to worry about in my own town / city / state / denomination and there are plenty of pastors and churches to keep up with here. I'm not in the same denomination he is, don't know him, and generally don't spend my time trying to "police" other evangelicals for doing things they believe in, like voting, running for office, supporting political candidates, and so on.

The U.S. has held dedications of statutes of famous people with clergy present since its founding and other religious rituals, like:

"U.S. Capitol cornerstone (1793): George Washington laid the cornerstone in a Masonic ceremony that included prayers and religious elements (standard for the time). This was one of the first major public events in the new federal city. Similar Masonic/religious rituals occurred for other early federal buildings."

Likewise, when the Washington Monument had its cornerstone laid, Rev. McJilton's offered a the prayer of consecration during the public ceremony, after an opening prayer and psalm by the Grand Chaplain of the Grand Lodge of Masons and a speech by the then-Speaker of the House.

As an Anabaptist, I would not be involved in such a thing. That's why my own church is different than mainstream evangelical churches or Freemasons and why we have different doctrines than they do, and indeed forbid our members to fall into false doctrine by straying into such instutitions. Most other Anabaptists also ban freemasonry as well; some enforce the avoidance ("ban") against members who drift into a mainstream evangelical church, but some allow this kind of apostacy.

[Szdfan]

What I find particularly hilarious is this that Mark Warner’s original post mentioned in the second sentence that the statue wasn’t a golden calf.

He knows exactly what this looks like.

This golden statue crosses into symbolism so obvious that it feels like satire. And part of the absurdity is that it’s not satire. This is something that actually happened.

The issue isn’t just that a statue exists. The tradition in the US has generally been suspicious of images of living leaders on statues or money, This was a deliberate symbol of our democracy. No leader in power deserves to be elevated above the country.

But do you know who puts up statues of living leaders? Authoritarian regimes. Dictatorships. Leaders with a cult of personality. The Soviet Union. North Korea. Iraq under Saddam Hussein. Is this who we want our democracy to emulate? Do we want to cultivate this the kind of fetishistic veneration of current leaders?

[barnhart]

I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said: “Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

-Percy Shelley

[Szdfan]

Maybe the concern is more about the who dedicated and blessed it. There are statues of folks all over, fine not my thing but it does hit me as edging awfully close to a 'form of worship' of our president. And I DID NOT say worship. But these evangelical folks are clearly flirting with the way they are honoring a man.

I know absolutely nothing about Pastor Mark Burns. I have enough to worry about in my own town / city / state / denomination and there are plenty of pastors and churches to keep up with here. I'm not in the same denomination he is, don't know him, and generally don't spend my time trying to "police" other evangelicals for doing things they believe in, like voting, running for office, supporting political candidates, and so on.

The U.S. has held dedications of statutes of famous people with clergy present since its founding and other religious rituals, like:

"U.S. Capitol cornerstone (1793): George Washington laid the cornerstone in a Masonic ceremony that included prayers and religious elements (standard for the time). This was one of the first major public events in the new federal city. Similar Masonic/religious rituals occurred for other early federal buildings."

Likewise, when the Washington Monument had its cornerstone laid, Rev. McJilton's offered a the prayer of consecration during the public ceremony, after an opening prayer and psalm by the Grand Chaplain of the Grand Lodge of Masons and a speech by the then-Speaker of the House.

As an Anabaptist, I would not be involved in such a thing. That's why my own church is different than mainstream evangelical churches or Freemasons and why we have different doctrines than they do, and indeed forbid our members to fall into false doctrine by straying into such instutitions. Most other Anabaptists also ban freemasonry as well; some enforce the avoidance ("ban") against members who drift into a mainstream evangelical church, but some allow this kind of apostacy.

It’s interesting that while you claim you’re not policing Christians from other traditions, you are busily trying to police your fellow Anabaptists from criticizing those traditions.

It’s like you’re positioning yourself above the fray, while simultaneously acting as a shield for those evangelical Christians you also believe are engaging in apostasy that your own church rejects.

What I find difficult to reconcile is that you claim Anabaptism while repeatedly defending, minimizing and normalizing the very union of political power and faith that historic Anabaptism rejects and criticizes.

[Szdfan]

I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said: “Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

-Percy Shelley

I frequently think of that poem these days.

[Szdfan]

Sometimes the Internet is funny.

[Soloist]

What I find particularly hilarious is this that Mark Warner’s original post mentioned in the second sentence that the statue wasn’t a golden calf.

He knows exactly what this looks like.

This golden statue crosses into symbolism so obvious that it feels like satire. And part of the absurdity is that it’s not satire. This is something that actually happened.

The issue isn’t just that a statue exists. The tradition in the US has generally been suspicious of images of living leaders on statues or money, This was a deliberate symbol of our democracy. No leader in power deserves to be elevated above the country.

But do you know who puts up statues of living leaders? Authoritarian regimes. Dictatorships. Leaders with a cult of personality. The Soviet Union. North Korea. Iraq under Saddam Hussein. Is this who we want our democracy to emulate? Do we want to cultivate this the kind of fetishistic veneration of current leaders?

Wife: I think if it weren’t gold, it would probably at least be a little better. I don’t think Golden calf; I think Nebuchadnezzar (although it sounds like it was only 1/3 to 1/4 of the height). I feel like maybe part of this is more to get on peoples nerves though by being edgy. It would make more sense after somebody dies, although statues of people are kind of odd anyway.

Unless it’s a giant chess set.

[Szdfan]

What I find particularly hilarious is this that Mark Warner’s original post mentioned in the second sentence that the statue wasn’t a golden calf.

He knows exactly what this looks like.

This golden statue crosses into symbolism so obvious that it feels like satire. And part of the absurdity is that it’s not satire. This is something that actually happened.

The issue isn’t just that a statue exists. The tradition in the US has generally been suspicious of images of living leaders on statues or money, This was a deliberate symbol of our democracy. No leader in power deserves to be elevated above the country.

But do you know who puts up statues of living leaders? Authoritarian regimes. Dictatorships. Leaders with a cult of personality. The Soviet Union. North Korea. Iraq under Saddam Hussein. Is this who we want our democracy to emulate? Do we want to cultivate this the kind of fetishistic veneration of current leaders?

Wife: I think if it weren’t gold, it would probably at least be a little better. I don’t think Golden calf; I think Nebuchadnezzar. I feel like maybe part of this is more to get on peoples nerves though by being edgy. It would make more sense after somebody dies, although statues of people are kind of odd anyway.

Unless it’s a giant chess set.

I agree. The optics are bad.

So apparently, the statute is actually bronze, but the artist’s suggestion to add gold leaf was enthusiastically embraced by the cryptocurrency bros who paid for it.

[barnhart]

This is a good reminder to me how vulnerable we Christians can be to accept things that tickle the ear in the direction we already want to go.