Culture, has it become a burden and stumbling block.

[Josh]

I have a handful of black female relatives that are having to wear the Nationwide style cap, and it looks goofy and weird. Such a disgrace to the beautiful young ladies. Maybe the Holdeman style is less cartoonish and disrespectful.

This leaves the question open of if the white see through kapp looks goofy and weird on white women. My perspective is that virtually every seeker I’ve talked to about it thinks it does.

That's a valid point and I concur. I just spent time around these black relatives of mine a few weeks ago and was appalled at the violation of their person hood by forcing them into this model. I don't criticize their parents. I point my finger at their culture. But how to fix it???

How is it a violating of their personhood? If that’s the culture they grow up in, that’s their culture. I see a lot of cultures every day with garments I find unappealing, including some of my relatives, but I don’t go and try to “fix it”.

If you know Sister Sonia in NYC, who has been sporting a kapp for decades, she looks elegant and fine and seems to like her decision. (She lives next to my church’s church there and comes to Wednesday night Bible study sometimes.)

[ragpicker]

How is it a violating of their personhood?

By forcing their hair into a religious symbol that was created for a sub-sub-culture of women of European decent. Some black women's hair works better with that style of cap than others. But for those whose hair doesn't... I want to be careful here... it just really bothers me. I'll message you.

[Josh]

How is it a violating of their personhood?

By forcing their hair into a religious symbol that was created for a sub-sub-culture of women of European decent. Some black women's hair works better with that style of cap than others. But for those whose hair doesn't... I want to be careful here... it just really bothers me. I'll message you.

I can appreciate your perspective. I’m just saying it’s not a style that really works for much of anyone, at least from the perspective of those of us from the outside.

The Amish style garb seems a lot more practical, particularly since it’s not see through. But I confess to having no idea how the (very few) black Amish women I’ve encountered wear their hairdos under their kapps.

[Ambassador]

So how does a leader, especially a young leader who may immediately be labeled rebellious, young and restless, results-driven, begin to speak to the establishment, the hierarchy, about this? Not to destroy, but to build up the church from the inside, but often mistaken for "going liberal" or "wanting freedom".

[ragpicker]

So how does a leader, especially a young leader who may immediately be labeled rebellious, young and restless, results-driven, begin to speak to the establishment, the hierarchy, about this? Not to destroy, but to build up the church from the inside, but often mistaken for "going liberal" or "wanting freedom".

With tears in my eyes, I say this... I am not sure it's possible. Breaks my heart. These are my people. I love them. But I don't know that it's possible.

[steve-in-kville]

One of our resident ladies once mentioned that the male hierarchy needed to be broken up to allow change to take place. I kinda see the direction she was going....

[Josh]

So how does a leader, especially a young leader who may immediately be labeled rebellious, young and restless, results-driven, begin to speak to the establishment, the hierarchy, about this? Not to destroy, but to build up the church from the inside, but often mistaken for "going liberal" or "wanting freedom".

Perhaps he should take a look at what has happened in other groups who allowed young leaders to tear down established traditions and standards, and then assess if he would simply prefer to just go be a part of such a group.

One such group was the Lancaster Mennonite Conference (now just called LMC), who decided to let missionaries relax dress standards. Returning missionaries felt the freedom to stay relaxed once they came home, including relaxing wearing coverings at all. If a young leader feels this way, I suggest he answer the call and go join an LMC member church, where he will find many quite fine Christians and churches.

[Josh]

One of our resident ladies once mentioned that the male hierarchy needed to be broken up to allow change to take place. I kinda see the direction she was going....

Perhaps a wiser choice would be to simply join one of the many, many existing churches that don't have a "male heirarchy". If she'd like to see female ministers, she could join LMC, although they still have only male bishops.

If she'd like to see women in all kinds of ministry, there are many kinds of Churches of the Brethren which have women in positions of senior leadership. Or, if one wishes to stay more Mennonite, there is a wide variety of churches within Evana and Mennonite Church USA or MC Canada to choose from.

What I question is why someone exists in a conservative setting, but then gets busy trying to make it more liberal.

[Ambassador]

So how does a leader, especially a young leader who may immediately be labeled rebellious, young and restless, results-driven, begin to speak to the establishment, the hierarchy, about this? Not to destroy, but to build up the church from the inside, but often mistaken for "going liberal" or "wanting freedom".

Perhaps he should take a look at what has happened in other groups who allowed young leaders to tear down established traditions and standards, and then assess if he would simply prefer to just go be a part of such a group.

One such group was the Lancaster Mennonite Conference (now just called LMC), who decided to let missionaries relax dress standards. Returning missionaries felt the freedom to stay relaxed once they came home, including relaxing wearing coverings at all. If a young leader feels this way, I suggest he answer the call and go join an LMC member church, where he will find many quite fine Christians and churches.

Josh, there is a huge difference between going liberal and putting cultural stumbling blocks in the path of sincere seekers and young disciples.
I agree with your advice to look what has happened to other churches.

[Josh]

Josh, there is a huge difference between going liberal and putting cultural stumbling blocks in the path of sincere seekers and young disciples.
I agree with your advice to look what has happened to other churches.

If you're in a church or a mission board that has these standards, you have three choices:

#1. Submit to these standards, and realise that sincere seekers have much, much more difficult things to face than new clothing styles. I'm a seeker and I'm friends with seekers. Believe me, it is the least of our concerns, although some things like see-through kapps can be a bit frustrating to us. But other things are more important.

#2. Plead and make a case to change these standards. Many mission boards do just that. In a moderately conservative or fundamental conservative church, there is very wide latitude for this. Perhaps look for a different mission board. Even if you're from a Mid-West type of church, there is an opportunity to serve with an institution like DNI and get away with it. When I was at a Mid-West church, we regularly sent donations to a couple with DNI where the couple's wife wore jean skirts in the mission field. I don't recall anyone even ever talking about it.

#3. Leave, and go to a different organisation. If one's heart is sincere, one can leave their more conservative church and go to a less-conservative church - but beware of the compromises one must make. You might find yourself needing to accept quite worldly practices in others that formerly would have offended you. It may affect the future culture your children grow up in, or even how much your children and your family are accepted.

A very good book to read on this topic is A Gentle Wind of God, which talks about the Lancaster Mennonite Conference faced these exact issues in the 20th century. Something to consider is that the reason the splits to Eastern (and Pilgrim), Mid-Atlantic, Keystone, and BMA exist at all is essentially because of the way these changes happened in the Lancaster Conference. So if these changes are worth doing now, they were worth doing back then, and I would suggest uniting one's self with the Lancaster Conference, instead of trying to make your little Mennonite group replicate what Lancaster did in the 1970s.