Crisis of Faith among Anabaptists?

[Ms. Izzie]

While I am not quite in the same place, as he is on a few things, I find the articulation by Palmer Becker, most completely as stated his Anabaptist Essentials book (2017)(though the precursor essay can be found free online), the most compelling. And it is a primary text we use here at EMS to discuss the Anabaptist vision. It is readable and in laymen's terms. (We also use Bender's paper, though that is less accessible.) Becker elucidates three key ideas.

I ordered the book after this recommendation. It came yesterday and I'm reading it. Are there others on MN who have read it?

[Bootstrap]

While I am not quite in the same place, as he is on a few things, I find the articulation by Palmer Becker, most completely as stated his Anabaptist Essentials book (2017)(though the precursor essay can be found free online), the most compelling. And it is a primary text we use here at EMS to discuss the Anabaptist vision. It is readable and in laymen's terms. (We also use Bender's paper, though that is less accessible.) Becker elucidates three key ideas.

I ordered the book after this recommendation. It came yesterday and I'm reading it. Are there others on MN who have read it?

I haven't. I found this PDF online, and I like it.

[Neto]

....
If an Anabaptist is asked what religion or denomination they are and they don't answer, "Christian" maybe they have started or do allow the worlds view of them define there worship more than Christ?

I'm not sure how I would respond to that question, but it is important to know what meaning the questioner places on the term "Christian". In Brazil, "Cristao" mean Catholic, & "Crente" ("Believer") means Protestant, except that Catholics also understand it to mean that the person using that term is also specifically saying that "Catholics are not believers". This builds walls, and destroys opportunities for mutual respect & connection through conversation. But I would guess that most North Americans, if they ask you what 'religion' you are, basically mean 'denomination'.

[Wade]

....
If an Anabaptist is asked what religion or denomination they are and they don't answer, "Christian" maybe they have started or do allow the worlds view of them define there worship more than Christ?

I'm not sure how I would respond to that question, but it is important to know what meaning the questioner places on the term "Christian". In Brazil, "Cristao" mean Catholic, & "Crente" ("Believer") means Protestant, except that Catholics also understand it to mean that the person using that term is also specifically saying that "Catholics are not believers". This builds walls, and destroys opportunities for mutual respect & connection through conversation. But I would guess that most North Americans, if they ask you what 'religion' you are, basically mean 'denomination'.

Excellent points. And maybe with these points it is easy to see how we can start to define who we are by how others define us? If we start like the most North Americans in thinking who we are by denomination I believe that can start to slowly make us drift away from who we are in Christ as our identity.

I'd rather use the name Christian even if it brings a lot of negative thoughts to people minds in the world rather than shift my terminology because they understand wrong. (My eyes have been opened recently to the plague of reactionism and I realize why I have such disdain for reacting to do things differently instead of doing things for the glory of God.)
Most people I talk to with a negative view of Christianity eventually start saying things like "real Christians" to me when not talking about general North American Christianity.

[barnhart]

Here is summary of Anabaptist vision from Chester Weaver, from a link in another thread.
1. Jesus Christ, through the holy scriptures, is the ultimate authority.
2. Since he is, I order my life in discipleship to him.
3. When others do the same, I enter into a body relationship with them called "the church."
4. The church, unique from its host culture, supernaturally denomstrates the love of Christ as it co-operates with him to build the Kingdom of God in the world today.

[HondurasKeiser]

Here is summary of Anabaptist vision from Chester Weaver, from a link in another thread.
1. Jesus Christ, through the holy scriptures, is the ultimate authority.
2. Since he is, I order my life in discipleship to him.
3. When others do the same, I enter into a body relationship with them called "the church."
4. The church, unique from its host culture, supernaturally denomstrates the love of Christ as it co-operates with him to build the Kingdom of God in the world today.

I really liked this as well as Dean Taylor's (I think it was he that said this) that Anabaptism is not a denomination but a hermeneutic.

[Ken]

Here is summary of Anabaptist vision from Chester Weaver, from a link in another thread.
1. Jesus Christ, through the holy scriptures, is the ultimate authority.
2. Since he is, I order my life in discipleship to him.
3. When others do the same, I enter into a body relationship with them called "the church."
4. The church, unique from its host culture, supernaturally denomstrates the love of Christ as it co-operates with him to build the Kingdom of God in the world today.

How is this different from virtually any other protestant denomination? It is perhaps true that Catholics or Baptists or other denominations would be unlikely to describe their faith in this exact manner. But I see nothing here that they would necessarily disagree with.

It seems more like a general summary of Christianity rather than a specific definition of Anabaptism.

In any event, few or no Anabaptist churches actually practice #3 as it is stated here. Church membership in the Anabaptist world is far more restrictive than simply "relating to other Christians"

[barnhart]

Here is summary of Anabaptist vision from Chester Weaver, from a link in another thread.
1. Jesus Christ, through the holy scriptures, is the ultimate authority.
2. Since he is, I order my life in discipleship to him.
3. When others do the same, I enter into a body relationship with them called "the church."
4. The church, unique from its host culture, supernaturally denomstrates the love of Christ as it co-operates with him to build the Kingdom of God in the world today.

How is this different from virtually any other protestant denomination? It is perhaps true that Catholics or Baptists or other denominations would be unlikely to describe their faith in this exact manner. But I see nothing here that they would necessarily disagree with.

It seems more like a general summary of Christianity rather than a specific definition of Anabaptism.

In any event, few or no Anabaptist churches actually practice #3 as it is stated here. Church membership in the Anabaptist world is far more restrictive than simply "relating to other Christians"

I suppose you could take this over to a neo reformed discussion board and see how it floats. To my eye each point would be controversial. It seems like general summary of Christianity to me as well, but I know from experience there are many, many believers who will object.

[Neto]

Here is summary of Anabaptist vision from Chester Weaver, from a link in another thread.
1. Jesus Christ, through the holy scriptures, is the ultimate authority.
2. Since he is, I order my life in discipleship to him.
3. When others do the same, I enter into a body relationship with them called "the church."
4. The church, unique from its host culture, supernaturally denomstrates the love of Christ as it co-operates with him to build the Kingdom of God in the world today.

How is this different from virtually any other protestant denomination? It is perhaps true that Catholics or Baptists or other denominations would be unlikely to describe their faith in this exact manner. But I see nothing here that they would necessarily disagree with.

It seems more like a general summary of Christianity rather than a specific definition of Anabaptism.

In any event, few or no Anabaptist churches actually practice #3 as it is stated here. Church membership in the Anabaptist world is far more restrictive than simply "relating to other Christians"

# 3 sums up one of the central reasons for the beginning of the Mennonite Brethren church in South Russia (now Ukraine) in 1860 - the recognition that we (anabaptists) are not the only ones who belong to the Universal Church, the Body of Christ, and the willingness to fellowship with others outside our own group. (This was the defining belief of the "Brotherhood Movement" in South Russia and other parts of Eastern Europe during the mid 1800's. Its members were in general not well accepted in their respective 'denominations', be that Mennonite, Lutheran, or Baptist, but possibly more accepted in the latter group, which is perhaps why many "Russian" Mennonites became Baptists in the following decades.)

Attempts can be made to "keep the world out", but they fail because the "world" is in us from birth, a part of the human nature.

Attempts can be made to keep the rest of the Body of Christ out, and sadly, these attempts are much more successful than are the attempts to keep the "world" out.

I think that the emphasis of the early anabaptists, at least for the "baptism-minded" Dutch "Mennonites", was to keep The Christ IN, and let that keep the world out, and also let the other members of His Body IN. I do still struggle to let Him do this in my own life on a consistent basis.
(I am not implying that the Swiss Brethren did not do this as well, I just refrain from making inferences in this respect regarding those who are not my spiritual ancestors.)

[Ken]

Here is summary of Anabaptist vision from Chester Weaver, from a link in another thread.
1. Jesus Christ, through the holy scriptures, is the ultimate authority.
2. Since he is, I order my life in discipleship to him.
3. When others do the same, I enter into a body relationship with them called "the church."
4. The church, unique from its host culture, supernaturally denomstrates the love of Christ as it co-operates with him to build the Kingdom of God in the world today.

How is this different from virtually any other protestant denomination? It is perhaps true that Catholics or Baptists or other denominations would be unlikely to describe their faith in this exact manner. But I see nothing here that they would necessarily disagree with.

It seems more like a general summary of Christianity rather than a specific definition of Anabaptism.

In any event, few or no Anabaptist churches actually practice #3 as it is stated here. Church membership in the Anabaptist world is far more restrictive than simply "relating to other Christians"

I suppose you could take this over to a neo reformed discussion board and see how it floats. To my eye each point would be controversial. It seems like general summary of Christianity to me as well, but I know from experience there are many, many believers who will object.

What about these points would be controversial (as opposed to being subject to qualification or additional elaboration)?

Catholics for example, might quibble with #1 or qualify it by saying "Jesus Christ, through the holy scriptures, and as revealed to the Pope and the Catholic Church, is the ultimate authority. But ultimately I think most Catholics would find it uncontroversial that scriptures are the ultimate authority for Christian teachings. They just rely on the pope and the church more heavily for interpretation than would Mennonites. For example, to pick one random Catholic teaching, here is the 1880 Papal Encyclical on Christian Marriage. If you read it you will find it bases its authority entirely on Scripture which is heavily referenced, and not just the whim the pope or mysterious revelations direct from God: https://www.papalencyclicals.net/leo13/l13cmr.htm

My point was that there seems to be nothing here that uniquely identifies Anabaptists as distinct from any other mainstream Christian denomination.