Anabaptism and the 1st Amendment

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Post Reply
User avatar
Robert
Site Janitor
Posts: 8694
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:16 pm
Affiliation: Anabaptist

Anabaptism and the 1st Amendment

Post by Robert »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Ame ... nstitution
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
What have been the general engagement or benefit we Anabaptists have received from the US Constitution's first amendment?

What has the historic Anabaptist position to the "separation of church and state?"

Do we exercise the freedom of speech and press?

What benefits does peaceful assembly have for us?

How has petitioning the government been done by Anabaptists?

Is the 1st amendment a good thing or bad thing for Anabaptists overall?
0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
MaxPC
Posts: 9226
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:09 pm
Location: Former full time RVers
Affiliation: PlainRomanCatholic
Contact:

Re: Anabaptism and the 1st Amendment

Post by MaxPC »

Robert wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Ame ... nstitution
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
What have been the general engagement or benefit we Anabaptists have received from the US Constitution's first amendment?

What has the historic Anabaptist position to the "separation of church and state?"

Do we exercise the freedom of speech and press?

What benefits does peaceful assembly have for us?

How has petitioning the government been done by Anabaptists?

Is the 1st amendment a good thing or bad thing for Anabaptists overall?
Great thread, Robert.
I would add to the bolded above, "what specific benefit has the Constitution been to Anabaptists?"
0 x
Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
User avatar
Robert
Site Janitor
Posts: 8694
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:16 pm
Affiliation: Anabaptist

Re: Anabaptism and the 1st Amendment

Post by Robert »

MaxPC wrote: I would add to the bolded above, "what specific benefit has the Constitution been to Anabaptists?"
I want to look at each of the first 10 amendments individually. The constitution gives the framework for the government. The Bill of Rights is really what gives so much of the individual rights to the people.
0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
MaxPC
Posts: 9226
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:09 pm
Location: Former full time RVers
Affiliation: PlainRomanCatholic
Contact:

Re: Anabaptism and the 1st Amendment

Post by MaxPC »

Robert wrote:
MaxPC wrote: I would add to the bolded above, "what specific benefit has the Constitution been to Anabaptists?"
I want to look at each of the first 10 amendments individually. The constitution gives the framework for the government. The Bill of Rights is really what gives so much of the individual rights to the people.
No worries; now that you've explained I see your intention.
Still a great thread. Will there be some Christian lessons from this?
0 x
Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
User avatar
Robert
Site Janitor
Posts: 8694
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:16 pm
Affiliation: Anabaptist

Re: Anabaptism and the 1st Amendment

Post by Robert »

MaxPC wrote:Will there be some Christian lessons from this?
From what I remember learning, there was Quaker who was part of the Continental Congress that really was impactful in the shaping of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. I think that is why much of it can easily be in harmony with Anabaptist ideology.
0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14744
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: Anabaptism and the 1st Amendment

Post by Bootstrap »

Robert wrote:
MaxPC wrote:I would add to the bolded above, "what specific benefit has the Constitution been to Anabaptists?"
I want to look at each of the first 10 amendments individually. The constitution gives the framework for the government. The Bill of Rights is really what gives so much of the individual rights to the people.
Only with respect to the Federal government. Amendments 12, 13, and 14 granted individual rights to the people with respect to the individual states.

For instance, Massachusetts was officially Congregational until the 1830s. Only the Federal government was prohibited from having a State Church until these later amendments said the Bill of Rights applied to the individual states. This is mentioned in a variety of Supreme Court decisions, such as this one:
It is only in recent years that the freedoms of the First Amendment have been recognized as among the fundamental personal rights protected by the Fourteenth Amendment from impairment by the states. Until then these liberties were not deemed to be guarded from state action by the Federal Constitution.
The Encyclopedia Brittanica discusses this here: First Amendment
In 1868, however, the Fourteenth Amendment was added to the U.S. Constitution, and it prohibited states from denying people “liberty” without “due process.” Since then the U.S. Supreme Court has gradually used the due process clause to apply most of the Bill of Rights to state governments. In particular, from the 1920s to the ’40s the Supreme Court applied all the clauses of the First Amendment to the states. Thus, the First Amendment now covers actions by federal, state, and local governments. The First Amendment also applies to all branches of government, including legislatures, courts, juries, and executive officials and agencies. This includes public employers, public university systems, and public school systems.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
barnhart
Posts: 3168
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:59 pm
Location: Brooklyn
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: Anabaptism and the 1st Amendment

Post by barnhart »

Robert wrote:
MaxPC wrote:Will there be some Christian lessons from this?
From what I remember learning, there was Quaker who was part of the Continental Congress that really was impactful in the shaping of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. I think that is why much of it can easily be in harmony with Anabaptist ideology.
Roger Williams was also influential in the first amendment. He spent time in Holland and was deeply impacted by the Anabaptists and their insistence on freedom of conscience.
0 x
User avatar
Robert
Site Janitor
Posts: 8694
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:16 pm
Affiliation: Anabaptist

Re: Anabaptism and the 1st Amendment

Post by Robert »

Bootstrap wrote:
Robert wrote:
MaxPC wrote:I would add to the bolded above, "what specific benefit has the Constitution been to Anabaptists?"
I want to look at each of the first 10 amendments individually. The constitution gives the framework for the government. The Bill of Rights is really what gives so much of the individual rights to the people.
Only with respect to the Federal government. Amendments 12, 13, and 14 granted individual rights to the people with respect to the individual states.

For instance, Massachusetts was officially Congregational until the 1830s. Only the Federal government was prohibited from having a State Church until these later amendments said the Bill of Rights applied to the individual states. This is mentioned in a variety of Supreme Court decisions, such as this one:
It is only in recent years that the freedoms of the First Amendment have been recognized as among the fundamental personal rights protected by the Fourteenth Amendment from impairment by the states. Until then these liberties were not deemed to be guarded from state action by the Federal Constitution.
The Encyclopedia Brittanica discusses this here: First Amendment
In 1868, however, the Fourteenth Amendment was added to the U.S. Constitution, and it prohibited states from denying people “liberty” without “due process.” Since then the U.S. Supreme Court has gradually used the due process clause to apply most of the Bill of Rights to state governments. In particular, from the 1920s to the ’40s the Supreme Court applied all the clauses of the First Amendment to the states. Thus, the First Amendment now covers actions by federal, state, and local governments. The First Amendment also applies to all branches of government, including legislatures, courts, juries, and executive officials and agencies. This includes public employers, public university systems, and public school systems.
So how does any of this connect to Anabaptists and our expression of faith?
0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
User avatar
Robert
Site Janitor
Posts: 8694
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:16 pm
Affiliation: Anabaptist

Re: Anabaptism and the 1st Amendment

Post by Robert »

barnhart wrote:
Robert wrote:
MaxPC wrote:Will there be some Christian lessons from this?
From what I remember learning, there was Quaker who was part of the Continental Congress that really was impactful in the shaping of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. I think that is why much of it can easily be in harmony with Anabaptist ideology.
Roger Williams was also influential in the first amendment. He spent time in Holland and was deeply impacted by the Anabaptists and their insistence on freedom of conscience.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Williams
Roger Williams (c. 21 December 1603 – between 27 January and 15 March 1683) was a Puritan minister, theologian, and author who founded Providence Plantations, which became the Colony of Rhode Island. He was a staunch advocate for religious freedom, separation of church and state, and fair dealings with American Indians, and he was one of the first abolitionists.
So do you feel the 1st Amendment is in harmony with Anabaptism or was influenced by it in any way?
0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
User avatar
ohio jones
Posts: 5447
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:23 pm
Location: undisclosed
Affiliation: Rosedale Network

Re: Anabaptism and the 1st Amendment

Post by ohio jones »

Robert wrote:What has the historic Anabaptist position to the "separation of church and state?"
It was our idea in the first place, but by the time the American Revolution came around the copyright had expired, and they neglected to give us credit.
2 x
I grew up around Indiana, You grew up around Galilee; And if I ever really do grow up, I wanna grow up to be just like You -- Rich Mullins

I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong, slightly edited
Post Reply