Dangerous Calling

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
MaxPC

Re: Dangerous Calling

Post by MaxPC »

Grace wrote:
This begs the question, do we as a conservative Anabaptist's have our own celebrities among ourselves? If asked this question, the immediate answer would be “No, of course not”. Yes, we do have some very notable preachers, teachers, missionaries, etc. However if we take a closer look we will see that the desire for fame, glory, and recognition does exist in our conservative Anabaptist Churches. Though lots of lip service is given to the glory of God and the extension of His kingdom, sometimes receiving the praise and glory of man is enjoyed more than the actual work for the Lord.

Some time back I heard a comment made by a minister, who is well known for powerful sermons. He said he does not stand in the back of the church to greet the people after the service, because it turns into a “praise the preacher” mode. This individual wanted the glory go to God, not him.
I have met priests who have done similar for the same reasons. Then parishioners accused them of being uppity or stand-offish.

Ministry is hard because there will always be those who complain louder than those who are happy with the ministry. Complaints are squeakier wheels than praise.
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Bootstrap

Re: Dangerous Calling

Post by Bootstrap »

I think Mentorlink has some really good insights on this.

For instance ...

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AnthonyMartin
Posts: 1191
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:52 pm
Affiliation: LMC

Re: Dangerous Calling

Post by AnthonyMartin »

As a pastor, my experience has been that the biggest danger is loneliness. In that loneliness there is incredible temptation to excuse any compromise as, "I have given so much I can enjoy this pleasure, or make this exception out of necessity".

One of the most helpful resource I've found in relation to this entire dialogue was John Stott's Problems of Christian Leadership.

Problems of Christian Leadership
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Ms. Izzie
Posts: 460
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:47 pm
Affiliation: CA

Re: Dangerous Calling

Post by Ms. Izzie »

undershepherd wrote:And while it might be easy for us to point our fingers at the mega churches and other groups we in the Mennonite world seem to have our own share of these problems.

My question is, what is the problem? Why? What can we do to prevent it?
Two problems I see in the Mennonite world.

1. No love of the Truth. When hard situations come up, truth falls by the wayside and culture or partiality of persons takes over in the decision making process. This can destroy churches and people, including the leaders.

2. An addiction to affirmation. "You pat my back and I'll pat yours in return." Our affirmation should come from the Lord. Giving encouragement to leaders is fine. Being crushed and unable to lead unless there is constant affirmation from the people is not healthy. The people want the affirmation from the leaders too. It can create a vicious cycle where we feed off of each other instead of going to the Vine for life.
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Grace
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Location: Pennsylvania
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: Dangerous Calling

Post by Grace »

Ms. Izzie wrote: Two problems I see in the Mennonite world.

1. No love of the Truth. When hard situations come up, truth falls by the wayside and culture or partiality of persons takes over in the decision making process. This can destroy churches and people, including the leaders.

2. An addiction to affirmation. "You pat my back and I'll pat yours in return." Our affirmation should come from the Lord. Giving encouragement to leaders is fine. Being crushed and unable to lead unless there is constant affirmation from the people is not healthy. The people want the affirmation from the leaders too. It can create a vicious cycle where we feed off of each other instead of going to the Vine for life.
Excellent points. I might add to that, "unable to accept constructive criticism" . I find that when leadership is addicted to affirmation, they can't accept constructive criticism and get very defensive when someone points out an area they might improve on.

Dealing with constructive criticism is a skill every mature Christian, and especially those in leadership, should possess. We give and take criticism among our fellow believers, our friends, and our family. Criticism is an important part of our personal self improvement, for it is other people who can point out mistakes and shortcomings that we can’t see because we lack objectivity.

Unfortunately, many Christians, including some within the Mennonite culture cannot accept criticism with maturity and grace. Instead they handle criticism like little kids, and get defensive. The question we need to ask is: am I so good, so righteous, and so godly, that I do not deserve criticism for my faults and failures.

Only God is perfect, and to think we should not receive criticism, but only praise and uplifting words, is putting ourselves on the same level as God. That is prideful, sinful, and God hates it.
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MaxPC

Re: Dangerous Calling

Post by MaxPC »

Grace wrote: I might add to that, "unable to accept constructive criticism" . I find that when leadership is addicted to affirmation, they can't accept constructive criticism and get very defensive when someone points out an area they might improve on.

Dealing with constructive criticism is a skill every mature Christian, and especially those in leadership, should possess. We give and take criticism among our fellow believers, our friends, and our family. Criticism is an important part of our personal self improvement, for it is other people who can point out mistakes and shortcomings that we can’t see because we lack objectivity.

Unfortunately, many Christians, including some within the Mennonite culture cannot accept criticism with maturity and grace. Instead they handle criticism like little kids, and get defensive. The question we need to ask is: am I so good, so righteous, and so godly, that I do not deserve criticism for my faults and failures.

Only God is perfect, and to think we should not receive criticism, but only praise and uplifting words, is putting ourselves on the same level as God. That is prideful, sinful, and God hates it.
I agree that receptivity to constructive criticism is important. The other side of this coin: With those congregants who are always complaining about every minor thing, they should also look at their own behaviors as well. Pastor burnout is a real issue largely because of the chronic complaining over minor things.

Making suggestions and giving advice is a skill. Perhaps if it is relabeled as “constructive suggestions” for the minor issues that would be a start.

Nevertheless and regardless, congregants need to be educated in distinguishing between whining about the minor things and how to approach on serious matters. The chronic complainers become like the little boy who cried wolf too many times: after awhile others tune them out thus leaving them without the ability to bring up major matters. Titus 2 mentors are valuable in this regard.
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Ms. Izzie
Posts: 460
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:47 pm
Affiliation: CA

Re: Dangerous Calling

Post by Ms. Izzie »

MaxPC wrote:Nevertheless and regardless, congregants need to be educated in distinguishing between whining about the minor things and how to approach on serious matters.
How is it determined what is minor and what is serious? Who determines this? What is minor to one person may be serious to another.
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MaxPC

Re: Dangerous Calling

Post by MaxPC »

Ms. Izzie wrote:
MaxPC wrote:Nevertheless and regardless, congregants need to be educated in distinguishing between whining about the minor things and how to approach on serious matters.
How is it determined what is minor and what is serious? Who determines this? What is minor to one person may be serious to another.
Of the serious matters I personally would consider two:
Abuse in any form.
Chronic and obstinate in-your-face disobedience to the guidance/ordnung of the fellowship.

Whining about minor things:
I don’t like how he pronounces that word.
His coat is always wrinkled.
He didn’t visit xyz last week. (He may have had an emergency).
Etc etc
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Hats Off

Re: Dangerous Calling

Post by Hats Off »

Ms. Izzie wrote:
MaxPC wrote:Nevertheless and regardless, congregants need to be educated in distinguishing between whining about the minor things and how to approach on serious matters.
How is it determined what is minor and what is serious? Who determines this? What is minor to one person may be serious to another.
When we get to the point where we lose respect for our leaders, we will be more inclined to see or hear their every mistake and nothing seems minor any more. Or at least that has been my experience.
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