Understood, JohnHurt. RHE held the same positions that you do that one can basically ignore Paul’s teachings on moral issues. That’s why I found it especially offensive how you posted so negatively about her shortly after her death.
I found this whole thing a bit of a shock. I’m the same age she was, and she had a very simple illness I’ve had before. It progressed badly very quickly. Nobody saw this coming, and her family is so young.
In the past my belief system was a lot closer to hers. An attitude like Boot showed above is helpful. We won’t win friends by attacking specific people because their beliefs are “wrong”.
Rachel Held Evans Dead
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Re: Rachel Held Evans Dead
Several years ago I was eating dinner with my parents when someone mentioned the recent death of a prominent Christian leader with whom I had significant disagreements. "Good riddance!" I said. My parents gently rebuked me, and I learned an important lesson.
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Re: Rachel Held Evans Dead
I have a lot of mixed feelings about the death of Evans. While I disagree with her solutions, I think she tapped into some real problems within evangelical Christianity. Admittedly, I haven't read a lot of her writings, but I'm aware of her theological positions.
I think it's very tragic a young mother died so young. I only feel grief. It makes me sad to see people celebrating her death or condemning her to hell. Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
I think it's very tragic a young mother died so young. I only feel grief. It makes me sad to see people celebrating her death or condemning her to hell. Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
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Re: Rachel Held Evans Dead
JohnHurt wrote:Rachel Evans taught against what Paul taught in Romans 1:22-32. She believed that we should accept evolutionary science, that creatures created themselves, and not as what is written in Genesis 1. In this way, she encouraged us to worship the creature more than the Creator. She said that we should not be against homosexual relationships, as Paul warned against in Romans 1:26-27.
It might be more precise to say that both "selectively ignore" Paul, since it appears John agrees with Paul when it suits his purposes. I suspect the same would be true of Rachel, though I am not familiar enough with her writings to provide examples.Josh wrote:Understood, JohnHurt. RHE held the same positions that you do that one can basically ignore Paul’s teachings on moral issues.
Of course that raises the question of who has authority to decide which parts of Paul must be accepted, and which can be ignored.
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I grew up around Indiana, You grew up around Galilee; And if I ever really do grow up, I wanna grow up to be just like You -- Rich Mullins
I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong, slightly edited
I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong, slightly edited
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Re: Rachel Held Evans Dead
It is very simple, Mr. Jones. Christ has the authority to decide what is accepted and ignored, not us. If our understanding of Paul conflicts with the teachings of Christ, either our understanding is incorrect, or Paul is incorrect. Christ is not wrong, we are.ohio jones wrote:It might be more precise to say that both "selectively ignore" Paul, since it appears John agrees with Paul when it suits his purposes. I suspect the same would be true of Rachel, though I am not familiar enough with her writings to provide examples.
Of course that raises the question of who has authority to decide which parts of Paul must be accepted, and which can be ignored.
Here is an example: When Christ said that the law would never be abolished in Matt 5:17-20, we must consider that Christ offered Himself in the eternal tabernacle (Hebrews 9), which replaced the blood sacrifices. These sacrifices are still in effect now and for all time, for they are performed eternally by Christ. So not one jod or tittle of the law has passed.
When Paul speaks of the ordinances of the law in Eph 2:15 and Col 2:14, to make this fit Matt 5:17-20, it cannot possibly mean the entire law was nailed to the cross. It means, looking at what Christ has said and His sacrifice, that the blood sacrifices were nailed to the cross.
Looking at what Paul said about the "works of the law", we know that "not killing, not stealing, not having a graven image, or resting on one day a week, these are not a "work", but something that you do not do. If you understand Paul's words to mean something different that conflicts with Matt 5:17-20, that is an error. The "works of the law" could mean just the animal sacrifices. This would bring Paul's statements in line with Christ.
And Paul's opinion that salvation by faith through grace without works appears to be contradicted by Christ in Matt 19:16-19 and by James in James 2. This is something you will have to study. Paul is just a man, he is not at the same level of authority as Christ.
But the principle is clear, that the teachings of Christ are superior, and still in force for everyone that follows Him.
Concerning this lady that died, I think everyone has sorrow for her family, for her children, her husband. If she had lived a private life, we would not be having this discussion.
But when someone becomes a writer, they are a public person. Their writing, not them, can be discussed without injury to them, their family, or anyone else. Their writing stands on its own.
When I read Edgar Allan Poe, I find his writings depressing and quite scary. When I read some of L. Ron Hubbard's works, I found a science fiction writer that turned religion into a money-making business. These men are both dead, and though no offense is to be given to them or their families, their works are in the public domain, and can be considered for debate.
Christ was very clear about opposing those that taught for doctrines the commandments of men. (Mt 15:9). Teaching that evolution is a "science" or that homosexual relationships should exist inside the church, is a doctrine of men, not God. When someone said that His opponents were offended by His statements, Christ said:
(14) Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
Perhaps that is the best advice of all. If someone is going to follow the doctrines of men, and not Christ, just leave them alone.
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"He replaced the teachings of Christ with his own opinions, and gave us a religion based on the doctrines of men."
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Re: Rachel Held Evans Dead
I have read enough of Rachel's writings to consider her a sister in Christ. Thus, I grieve with those who grieve. I'm especially sad her husband and children have had to say good-by to their loved one so soon.
While I haven't always agreed, I have often appreciated and/or been challenged by her insights. She was a gifted and provocative thinker who at times challenged things within evangelicalism that needed challenging.
While I haven't always agreed, I have often appreciated and/or been challenged by her insights. She was a gifted and provocative thinker who at times challenged things within evangelicalism that needed challenging.
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Re: Rachel Held Evans Dead
While I do not know who this young lady was, I agree with this sentiment I bolded in the above quote.QuietObserver wrote:I have a lot of mixed feelings about the death of Evans. While I disagree with her solutions, I think she tapped into some real problems within evangelical Christianity. Admittedly, I haven't read a lot of her writings, but I'm aware of her theological positions.
I think it's very tragic a young mother died so young. I only feel grief. It makes me sad to see people celebrating her death or condemning her to hell. Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
Quaque spiritus est, spes est. (Wheresoever there is breath there is hope).
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Re: Rachel Held Evans Dead
I haven't read any of her writings. How can you consider her a sister in Christ if she actively promoted things that you believe to be sinful? (Assuming she did by this thread.)Dan Z wrote:I have read enough of Rachel's writings to consider her a sister in Christ. Thus, I grieve with those who grieve. I'm especially sad her husband and children have had to say good-by to their loved one so soon.
While I haven't always agreed, I have often appreciated and/or been challenged by her insights. She was a gifted and provocative thinker who at times challenged things within evangelicalism that needed challenging.
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Re: Rachel Held Evans Dead
[bible]acts 9,17[/bible]RZehr wrote:How can you consider her a sister in Christ if she actively promoted things that you believe to be sinful? (Assuming she did by this thread.)
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Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
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Re: Rachel Held Evans Dead
Perhaps I'm thickheaded but I'm don't I understand how this answers the question.Robert wrote:[bible]acts 9,17[/bible]RZehr wrote:How can you consider her a sister in Christ if she actively promoted things that you believe to be sinful? (Assuming she did by this thread.)
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