A Mennonite view of divorce and remarriage

[appleman2006]

And I leave your church's position between you and God. But I don't think it is the most straightforward interpretation of Scripture, and I especially question encouraging people to divorce.

I have made the point I felt I needed to make primarily for a particular audience that I hope will recognize themselves. I am not interested in debating this further as I do not expect to be able to or feel it my mission to change your mind.

I just want to make it clear that no church I know of considers it encouraging divorce in the Biblical sense when they would suggest a second marriage be dissolved since they do not recognize that second marriage as legitimate before God in the first place. But again I do not expect you to understand that.

[Josh]

However the fact remains that almost any modern church that has accepted your view is only a generation from experiencing divorce and remarriage at nearly the same level as society around them.

Your position may be right. But this particular observation isn't really a valid point, is it?
The end doesn't justify the means. The Holdeman Mennonites "only church" doctrine appears to be working to keep people in the church, but that doesn't mean they are correct to teach that.

I tend to have similar thinking of "ends justify the means", but if our main goal is stable churches and stable marriages we should emulate the Old Order Amish, who are even more stable.

I think a lot of people don't get into a bad marriage at all for fear of not being able to divorce and remarriage later, or stay in a marriage they aren't happy in because they can't just go marry someone else. But I'm not sure if fear is the same as holy living.

[Josh]

I don't know if I will ever be able to relate remarriage after divorce to holy living when I consider that we are to imitate Christ in faithfulness and purity.

Could you elaborate on what that means?

[Wade]

I don't know if I will ever be able to relate remarriage after divorce to holy living when I consider that we are to imitate Christ in faithfulness and purity.

Could you elaborate on what that means?

Eph 5:31-32 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. (32) This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

I don't see in scripture any idea of Christ being unfaithful to leaving His bride.

[Josh]

I just want to make it clear that no church I know of considers it encouraging divorce in the Biblical sense when they would suggest a second marriage be dissolved since they do not recognize that second marriage as legitimate before God in the first place. But again I do not expect you to understand that.

We might not view it as divorce, but when someone had a 3 month fling decades ago, later learns about Jesus and tries to follow him, and then has a 30 year marriage with kids, it sure looks like "divorce" to break that up now.

I struggle with this since I don't know how I would have turned out if my parents obeyed this doctrine. If they had tried to join a conservative church 36 years ago, I simply wouldn't exist. And if they'd tried to join later, I would have grown up in a broken home. And I strongly suspect my mother would have eventually been talked into marrying again, so I would have had a step-father and probably all kinds of problems like kids of divorce do.

The simple fact is, I never see any good fruit from breaking up these remarriages. I'm all ears for hearing good fruit and I actually have put multiple inquiries out there for stories of divorced people trying to live up to the modern Conservative Anabaptist standard for my book. So far I have very little material.

[Josh]

I don't see in scripture any idea of Christ being unfaithful to leaving His bride.

God talks quite a bit about divorcing Israel for her chronic unfaithfulness to him, and in any case the wedding supper of the lamb is described as a future event; I don't see in scripture that Jesus and the church are actually married yet. He seems to be waiting until we can be presented pure and spotless.

[appleman2006]

However the fact remains that almost any modern church that has accepted your view is only a generation from experiencing divorce and remarriage at nearly the same level as society around them.

Your position may be right. But this particular observation isn't really a valid point, is it?
The end doesn't justify the means. The Holdeman Mennonites "only church" doctrine appears to be working to keep people in the church, but that doesn't mean they are correct to teach that.

I tend to have similar thinking of "ends justify the means", but if our main goal is stable churches and stable marriages we should emulate the Old Order Amish, who are even more stable.

I think a lot of people don't get into a bad marriage at all for fear of not being able to divorce and remarriage later, or stay in a marriage they aren't happy in because they can't just go marry someone else. But I'm not sure if fear is the same as holy living.

You make a good point Josh. Ultimately holy living should be the glue that keeps our marriages together. Mind you I believe part of that holy living is knowing and believing that marriage is for life and I will do everything in my power to make it work. The idea that holy living will always ensure that marriage has no bumps while it may be true is not really a fact of life. But I agree that sometimes our marriages get into trouble because of the fact that we start to take each other for granted and assume that my partner will never leave me regardless how I treat her so what does it matter. That is so wrong and so far away from following after God that it should never ever be named among us. But sadly it is at times.

[RZehr]

However the fact remains that almost any modern church that has accepted your view is only a generation from experiencing divorce and remarriage at nearly the same level as society around them.

Your position may be right. But this particular observation isn't really a valid point, is it?
The end doesn't justify the means. The Holdeman Mennonites "only church" doctrine appears to be working to keep people in the church, but that doesn't mean they are correct to teach that.

This particular reason is not a direct Biblical reason. I agree the Bible does not say directly that holding to this position will ensure less cases of divorce and remarriage in a given community. But the fact remains that it does and I believe it comes as a result of holding to God's view of marriage. The end of course does not justify the means alone but when the end is positive it is an added sign that the means may be correct.

I think your Holdeman argument is a straw man argument and not a true comparison in that I do not think that doctrine is scripturally based at all.

Okay, I think I understand what you are saying now.

[Wade]

I just want to make it clear that no church I know of considers it encouraging divorce in the Biblical sense when they would suggest a second marriage be dissolved since they do not recognize that second marriage as legitimate before God in the first place. But again I do not expect you to understand that.

We might not view it as divorce, but when someone had a 3 month fling decades ago, later learns about Jesus and tries to follow him, and then has a 30 year marriage with kids, it sure looks like "divorce" to break that up now.

I struggle with this since I don't know how I would have turned out if my parents obeyed this doctrine. If they had tried to join a conservative church 36 years ago, I simply wouldn't exist. And if they'd tried to join later, I would have grown up in a broken home. And I strongly suspect my mother would have eventually been talked into marrying again, so I would have had a step-father and probably all kinds of problems like kids of divorce do.

The simple fact is, I never see any good fruit from breaking up these remarriages. I'm all ears for hearing good fruit and I actually have put multiple inquiries out there for stories of divorced people trying to live up to the modern Conservative Anabaptist standard for my book. So far I have very little material.

I guess we are just basing off of things we have seen then?
And if that is the case: The simple fact is, I never see any good fruit from remarriages.

[appleman2006]

I just want to make it clear that no church I know of considers it encouraging divorce in the Biblical sense when they would suggest a second marriage be dissolved since they do not recognize that second marriage as legitimate before God in the first place. But again I do not expect you to understand that.

We might not view it as divorce, but when someone had a 3 month fling decades ago, later learns about Jesus and tries to follow him, and then has a 30 year marriage with kids, it sure looks like "divorce" to break that up now.

I struggle with this since I don't know how I would have turned out if my parents obeyed this doctrine. If they had tried to join a conservative church 36 years ago, I simply wouldn't exist. And if they'd tried to join later, I would have grown up in a broken home. And I strongly suspect my mother would have eventually been talked into marrying again, so I would have had a step-father and probably all kinds of problems like kids of divorce do.

The simple fact is, I never see any good fruit from breaking up these remarriages. I'm all ears for hearing good fruit and I actually have put multiple inquiries out there for stories of divorced people trying to live up to the modern Conservative Anabaptist standard for my book. So far I have very little material.

As I have stated before I know of a number of situations that I am sure you could write about if they would agree to tell their stories.
And yes I feel for your personal situation. The fact is though that the further society strays from God's true intention for marriage the more of these types of situations there will be. My desire is for less of these. Not more.