https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-nort ... thing.html
The lines of “pro choice” and “pro life” do waver to and fro. Here, Oregon is pro life, while Idaho is pro choice.
Article: Four kids in an Idaho faith-healing family died. Authorities could do nothing
Re: Article: Four kids in an Idaho faith-healing family died. Authorities could do nothing
I would say that people who have a religious conviction against using the medical system should have their beliefs respected. (I’m sure the treatments proposed are not free of charge; I certainly don’t think a family should be expected to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to do something they feel is wrong.)R7ehr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2026 3:29 pm https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-nort ... thing.html
The lines of “pro choice” and “pro life” do waver to and fro. Here, Oregon is pro life, while Idaho is pro choice.
The government should focus a bit more perhaps on prosecuting mothers who murder their children, which so far it doesn’t have an amazing track record with.
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Re: Article: Four kids in an Idaho faith-healing family died. Authorities could do nothing
I believe that not all religious beliefs are worth protecting. I am a Christian, not a religious freedom absolutist. So while I certainly appreciate religious freedom, and find myself allied with others in defending religious freedom, Biblical Christianity must trump other religions and even non-Biblical christianity even if it comes at the price of eroding some religious freedom. Religious freedom is not sacrosanct, true Christianity is.
Therefor, even while I usually find myself allied with general freedom of religion positions, I cannot allow myself to become entangled with “religious freedom” at the cost of Christianity. And I think everyone on this forum actually agrees with this even if they may not realize it. It is simply a matter of degrees among us here. Who here would defend Aztec style heathen human sacrifice under the principle of absolute religious freedom? I hope and expect no one.
So my position is that true Christ based religion would not permit or defend allowing children to die like this, and while I may be slow to designate these parents as “non-Christian”, I don’t think I need to apologize for clearly stating that their belief is wrong.
It is in a lot of ways like Christians thinking killing while in uniform is acceptable. No, it isn’t, and I don’t need to pussy foot around it.
People, even well meaning people, can be lead astray. And that is what this church is doing. Sincerity is not the measure of Biblical Christianity. And we don’t really need to defend anti-Biblical behavior from people professing the name of Christ.
I am not here to ensure religious protection or equal treatment. That is for citizens of this world.
Therefor, even while I usually find myself allied with general freedom of religion positions, I cannot allow myself to become entangled with “religious freedom” at the cost of Christianity. And I think everyone on this forum actually agrees with this even if they may not realize it. It is simply a matter of degrees among us here. Who here would defend Aztec style heathen human sacrifice under the principle of absolute religious freedom? I hope and expect no one.
So my position is that true Christ based religion would not permit or defend allowing children to die like this, and while I may be slow to designate these parents as “non-Christian”, I don’t think I need to apologize for clearly stating that their belief is wrong.
It is in a lot of ways like Christians thinking killing while in uniform is acceptable. No, it isn’t, and I don’t need to pussy foot around it.
People, even well meaning people, can be lead astray. And that is what this church is doing. Sincerity is not the measure of Biblical Christianity. And we don’t really need to defend anti-Biblical behavior from people professing the name of Christ.
I am not here to ensure religious protection or equal treatment. That is for citizens of this world.
Last edited by R7ehr on Thu Oct 01, 2026 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Article: Four kids in an Idaho faith-healing family died. Authorities could do nothing
Well said.R7ehr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2026 4:37 pm I believe that not all religious beliefs are worth protecting. I am a Christian, not a religious freedom absolutist. So while I certainly appreciate religious freedom, and find myself allied with others in defending religious freedom, Biblical Christianity must trump other religions and even non-Biblical christianity even if it comes at the price of eroding some religious freedom. Religious freedom is not sacrosanct, true Christianity is.
Therefor, even while I usually find myself allied with general freedom of religion positions, I cannot allow myself to become entangled with “religious freedom” at the cost of Christianity. And I think everyone on this forum actually agrees with this even if they may not realize it. It is simply a matter of degrees among us here. Who here would defend Aztec style heathen human sacrifice under the principle of absolute religious freedom? I hope and expect no one.
So my position is that true Christ based religion would not permit or defend allowing children to die like this, and while I may be slow to designate these parents as “non-Christian”, I don’t think I need to apologize for clearly stating that their belief is wrong.
It is in a lot of ways like Christians thinking killing while in uniform is acceptable. No, it isn’t, and I don’t need to pussy foot around it.
People, even well meaning people, can be lead astray. And that is what this church is doing. Sincerity is not the measure of Biblical Christianity. And we don’t really need to defend anti-Biblical behavior from people professing the name of Christ.
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Re: Article: Four kids in an Idaho faith-healing family died. Authorities could do nothing
I will end up becoming a faith healer at some point.
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Re: Article: Four kids in an Idaho faith-healing family died. Authorities could do nothing
Why not right now? I already am. I don’t think it precludes medicine. I think one cannot be a faith healer without prayer, and that prayer is the essential part and non-exclusive part, of faith healing.
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Re: Article: Four kids in an Idaho faith-healing family died. Authorities could do nothing
I was referring to the exclusivity.
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Re: Article: Four kids in an Idaho faith-healing family died. Authorities could do nothing
This was normal for our great, great grandparents.
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Re: Article: Four kids in an Idaho faith-healing family died. Authorities could do nothing
Well, the state is the one who decides these things, and the state in our country doesn't decide what "biblical Christianity" it is. It allows people to follow their own conscience in these matters.R7ehr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2026 4:37 pm I believe that not all religious beliefs are worth protecting. I am a Christian, not a religious freedom absolutist. So while I certainly appreciate religious freedom, and find myself allied with others in defending religious freedom, Biblical Christianity must trump other religions and even non-Biblical christianity even if it comes at the price of eroding some religious freedom. Religious freedom is not sacrosanct, true Christianity is.
As Anabaptists, we are not in a position to go use the sword to compel someone to take their children to get medical treatments. Only the state can pick up and carry that sword.
I think a bit more respect shown for people who want to eschew modern medicine is reasonable. People do a lot of unhealthy things, including allowing their children to do unhealthy things: eat junk food, look at iPad screens, and so on. Should the state intervene in all those cases, too?So my position is that true Christ based religion would not permit or defend allowing children to die like this, and while I may be slow to designate these parents as “non-Christian”, I don’t think I need to apologize for clearly stating that their belief is wrong.
It is in a lot of ways like Christians thinking killing while in uniform is acceptable. No, it isn’t, and I don’t need to pussy foot around it.
What about modern medicine that actually can make things worse? At various points in time, modern medicine prescribed things like thalidomide to pregnant women. How, exactly, will you decide what medical treatments parents "should" get for their children?
In particular, as someone who wants to avoid medical treatments and products made using abortion, this matter of freedom is important to my own conscience - and I hope it is to yours, too. If a medical treatment comes out that will absolutely 100% save my child's life, but it requires using products from an abortion, I would hope that I would say "No." And I would hope a man with a gun doesn't come to my house to haul my child away to forcibly administer it.
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Re: Article: Four kids in an Idaho faith-healing family died. Authorities could do nothing
There is a big and important difference in theologies that teach faith only and all medicine or procedures are sinful; and theologies that teach that some medicine might be sinful, others are ill advised, others are fine. I think historic Biblical Christianity is no stranger to refusing witchcraft for healing, or certain potions. But I hold that Christianity does not inherently exclude taking medicine.
How far should Christians go in defending death in pursuit of uninfringed freedom of religion?
Improper care of children cannot be excused by playing the trump card of "freedom of religion". And I recognize that this feels like a scary thought. It is of course scary to think that I could be next. But even if I am next, isn't it better persecuted standing alone on truth, than being un-persecuted if that means defending non-Christ like actions with plenty of crazy non-Christian company - Muslims, etc.?
I think of the case in Missouri a few years back where some crazy Anabaptist woman thought her child was possessed or something, and drowned them in the backyard pond. Should she be granted immunity because of her misguided spiritual notions?
Or let's pretend that a denomination develops where they teach that everyone ought to fast. We recognize that fasting has plenty of actual Biblical support. So they take a Biblical teaching, and then they begin fasting their children to death. Is that defensible?
I say no, and I don't think that them holding sincere religious beliefs should protect them, because I think they are sincerely and terribly wrong.
I think broad brush defending this sort of thing under the blanket of "religious freedom" is the easy and lazy way out. It is easy. A person don't really have to put in the effort to discern or wrestle with various medicine and procedures. And I think we need to. Because it is not true that taking medicine is in conflict with faith, and there are innocent lives at stake. It isn't a harmless shortcut.
How far should Christians go in defending death in pursuit of uninfringed freedom of religion?
Improper care of children cannot be excused by playing the trump card of "freedom of religion". And I recognize that this feels like a scary thought. It is of course scary to think that I could be next. But even if I am next, isn't it better persecuted standing alone on truth, than being un-persecuted if that means defending non-Christ like actions with plenty of crazy non-Christian company - Muslims, etc.?
I think of the case in Missouri a few years back where some crazy Anabaptist woman thought her child was possessed or something, and drowned them in the backyard pond. Should she be granted immunity because of her misguided spiritual notions?
Or let's pretend that a denomination develops where they teach that everyone ought to fast. We recognize that fasting has plenty of actual Biblical support. So they take a Biblical teaching, and then they begin fasting their children to death. Is that defensible?
I say no, and I don't think that them holding sincere religious beliefs should protect them, because I think they are sincerely and terribly wrong.
I think broad brush defending this sort of thing under the blanket of "religious freedom" is the easy and lazy way out. It is easy. A person don't really have to put in the effort to discern or wrestle with various medicine and procedures. And I think we need to. Because it is not true that taking medicine is in conflict with faith, and there are innocent lives at stake. It isn't a harmless shortcut.
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