Anabaptist Ordinations By Lot
Re: Anabaptist Ordinations By Lot
My experience growing up was that this was the official position, but many of the people in the pews saw the lot as the way to weed out unqualified candidates. Some of those advocated for an extra ‘blank book’ in the lot, in other words letting God through the lot decide if we would have an ordination at all. I think some, especially those with Old Order Mennonite background saw the lot as synonymous with ordination and struggled to accept those selected without a lot as truly ordained.
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Re: Anabaptist Ordinations By Lot
Yes, Wesley, I think you are right. Dan Freed just told me about someone from his congregation at one time who wanted to be ordained by lot as it didn't feel appropriate otherwise. I think this is often the case in "lot using" churches. Some who are the only one to receive enough votes and were ordained accordingly, never liked that they weren't chosen by lot as it felt to them that they were chosen by people instead of by the Lord.
In many of the churches that I was part of, I think the rank and file as well as the ordained believed that the lot was sort of a pointing out as to who had been anointed of the Lord...
similar to the Lord anointing David, but all the sons of Jesse passing before Samuel until the Lord's anointed was identified.
In many of the churches that I was part of, I think the rank and file as well as the ordained believed that the lot was sort of a pointing out as to who had been anointed of the Lord...
similar to the Lord anointing David, but all the sons of Jesse passing before Samuel until the Lord's anointed was identified.
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A wee little man can’t say, I’m sorry. A big man owns his mistakes and apologizes.
A wee little man trusts himself and his own discernment. A big man is humble enough to know that he needs the counsel and input of others.
A wee little man trusts himself and his own discernment. A big man is humble enough to know that he needs the counsel and input of others.
Re: Anabaptist Ordinations By Lot
The difficult issue is few would disagree that not everyone nominated should be in the lot.
The problem is how to balance proper ministerial guiderails versus abuse of position.
And that is not an easily resolved issue
The problem is how to balance proper ministerial guiderails versus abuse of position.
And that is not an easily resolved issue
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Re: Anabaptist Ordinations By Lot
One thing that goes really far, is transparency and communication. Don’t hide things. At least that’s what I think, I haven’t ever seen an ordination where there was any problems in the last 40 years.
Last edited by R7ehr on Sun Dec 22, 2024 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anabaptist Ordinations By Lot
I wish we could do a poll on this by constituency to see if you are correct.
Swartzentruber Amish
OO Amish
Groffdale Conference
Weaverland Conference
Ultra Conservative Mennonite
Intermediate Conservative Mennnonite
Moderate Conservative Mennonite
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A wee little man can’t say, I’m sorry. A big man owns his mistakes and apologizes.
A wee little man trusts himself and his own discernment. A big man is humble enough to know that he needs the counsel and input of others.
A wee little man trusts himself and his own discernment. A big man is humble enough to know that he needs the counsel and input of others.
Re: Anabaptist Ordinations By Lot
We just had an ordination this weekend (deacon ordination). We did things a little differently this time than in the past:
We had five services:
1. Wednesday eve. - In addition to the sermon, our bishop announced the order of events for the weekend, and also announced the two eligible names for the lot - both of these men had been interviewed by the ministry and consented to be in the lot. There were theoretically two other names who might have been eligible, but were not considered: one of them asked not to be considered, and another name (yours truly) has just gotten married this past summer, and there is a requirement for both the candidate and his wife to have been a church member for at least two years prior to ordination. All of this was announced Wednesday evening and so there was a lot of transparency about who was eligible and who was not.
2. Thursday eve - we voted on Thursday eve. Voting was done privately by writing on a piece of paper, every member including the ministers gets a vote (my wife and I voted differently, but both felt fully comfortable with whoever was chosen, and there was no arguing over it). The visiting minister was at hand to observe and help anyone who needed help, and our current ministers were behind a barrier, not watching who voted, but counting the votes. Both candidates were over the threshold which was set at 11 (I think we have 41 members). You could also vote "God bless” if you felt led not to give a name.
3. Friday eve - we drew the lot. This was done on Friday so that the family of whoever was NOT selected would not have to travel this weekend on the chance that their name might be selected. The family of the one selected already knew it after Friday night. We used two practically-new songbooks, with the paper placed at #923, Have Thine Own Way. The paper for the one selected has Prov. 16:33 written on it: "The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the Lord." The other book also had a paper in it, saying: "Well done, thou good and faithful servant. May the Lord bless and keep you."
4. Sunday morning - no Sunday School, we had two sermons. Then we had a carry-in dinner.
(Went home briefly to relax)
5. Sunday afternoon at 3: We had a final sermon and then the "charge" (the formal ordination) was given. (This final service was held at a neighboring Conservative church a mile down the road - they have a larger sanctuary, allowing a larger congregation to attend for the official ordination).
We had a visiting minister who preached at each service, in addition to a second visiting minister who preached the second message this morning.
I think we have used private, written votes in the last few ordinations (during the last twelve years or so). Twenty-two years ago, the first time I voted in an ordination, we went into a room and announced our vote to the ministry in that room, which would have included visiting ministers. But I think that was the last time we did it that way.
We had five services:
1. Wednesday eve. - In addition to the sermon, our bishop announced the order of events for the weekend, and also announced the two eligible names for the lot - both of these men had been interviewed by the ministry and consented to be in the lot. There were theoretically two other names who might have been eligible, but were not considered: one of them asked not to be considered, and another name (yours truly) has just gotten married this past summer, and there is a requirement for both the candidate and his wife to have been a church member for at least two years prior to ordination. All of this was announced Wednesday evening and so there was a lot of transparency about who was eligible and who was not.
2. Thursday eve - we voted on Thursday eve. Voting was done privately by writing on a piece of paper, every member including the ministers gets a vote (my wife and I voted differently, but both felt fully comfortable with whoever was chosen, and there was no arguing over it). The visiting minister was at hand to observe and help anyone who needed help, and our current ministers were behind a barrier, not watching who voted, but counting the votes. Both candidates were over the threshold which was set at 11 (I think we have 41 members). You could also vote "God bless” if you felt led not to give a name.
3. Friday eve - we drew the lot. This was done on Friday so that the family of whoever was NOT selected would not have to travel this weekend on the chance that their name might be selected. The family of the one selected already knew it after Friday night. We used two practically-new songbooks, with the paper placed at #923, Have Thine Own Way. The paper for the one selected has Prov. 16:33 written on it: "The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the Lord." The other book also had a paper in it, saying: "Well done, thou good and faithful servant. May the Lord bless and keep you."
4. Sunday morning - no Sunday School, we had two sermons. Then we had a carry-in dinner.
(Went home briefly to relax)
5. Sunday afternoon at 3: We had a final sermon and then the "charge" (the formal ordination) was given. (This final service was held at a neighboring Conservative church a mile down the road - they have a larger sanctuary, allowing a larger congregation to attend for the official ordination).
We had a visiting minister who preached at each service, in addition to a second visiting minister who preached the second message this morning.
I think we have used private, written votes in the last few ordinations (during the last twelve years or so). Twenty-two years ago, the first time I voted in an ordination, we went into a room and announced our vote to the ministry in that room, which would have included visiting ministers. But I think that was the last time we did it that way.
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Re: Anabaptist Ordinations By Lot
Was this ordination at Pleasant View?
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A wee little man can’t say, I’m sorry. A big man owns his mistakes and apologizes.
A wee little man trusts himself and his own discernment. A big man is humble enough to know that he needs the counsel and input of others.
A wee little man trusts himself and his own discernment. A big man is humble enough to know that he needs the counsel and input of others.
Re: Anabaptist Ordinations By Lot
I advocated for this soon after we were married, for the same reasons, but it was too unconventional, so it never happened. Glad to see others doing this!
Went through the lot twice and our family members all lived over 16 hours away.
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A wee little man can’t say, I’m sorry. A big man owns his mistakes and apologizes.
A wee little man trusts himself and his own discernment. A big man is humble enough to know that he needs the counsel and input of others.
A wee little man trusts himself and his own discernment. A big man is humble enough to know that he needs the counsel and input of others.
Re: Anabaptist Ordinations By Lot
Is there a particular reason family members “have to” travel?
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